And putting two kids in that ain't ready doesn't solve any problems.

We need to get wheeler playing like a halfback and start getting more involved. He's to laid back. He's got a decent kicking game. We not asking for 40/20s, just put a good kick deep on last to turn them around. It's basic for a halfback which he's played all his life as a kid and in saints youth set up.


McDonnell and swift coming in is a no Brainer for me. They have the individual ability to beat men and make breaks. We ain't going to win games with playing rugby.

Putting a kid in might answer more than simply praying wheeler does what we've all been hoping for 6 years? Even if it's American football style they are hidden from play until the last when all they have to do is kick it, they'd offer more than wheeler did tonight.

Wheeler is never going to be a "dominant" half, but he had his umpteenth chance to prove he was capable of influencing a result tonight and we got what we got every other time. Einstein said the definition of madness was doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results!

Agreed with McDonnell, we've brought him in for a reason so we should use him, I don't know what's going on with swift, but Dawson sounded like he had a downright bad game tonight so should see his reintroduction.

Some key performers missing tonight for saints but we deserved the win in what was a sloppy game for both at times, best of luck with the rest of the season, #COYH.

I can't believe Saints managed to lose to such and mediocre team, mediocre club.

steady on, we're not that good

I expected the loss so I'm not too shocked.

Season is over. What's the point in trying to win the league with no HBs? No side could do it.

God help us against Leeds and Warrington. Another two embarrassments will probably be added to the rest of them that we've had this season.

It's just diabolical that we are in the same situation again regarding the halves.

Very very poor by the club. Even if Wilkin and Lance was fit, we still no chance of winning the grand final.

We can't keep going on with playing short in key positions year in and year out.

My god, some of your fans are embarrassing. You are top of the league....Hull have been due this type of result for a while.

Can't remember a season when so many clubs at the top just lose games they would once win quite easily, do these coaches and clubs not understand how expensive travel and tickets are these days?

At least we match the team then.

Same goes for Wigan and Leeds courtesy of Wakefield and Bradford, we are not alone in these scenarios.
I can give you 6 or 7 reasons in Saints case.

Awww diddums. Top of the league and the team is an embarrassment?

Fact is we have our pivot players out for the season and will struggle from now on, doesn't make those players toiling on the pitch in bad circumstances an embarrassment, but there are a few fans who fit that bill

Other than catching us cold early on and a piece of individual brilliance from manu, you offered nothing at all attacking wise and we looked defensively comfortable all night. Your kicking game was pretty much non existent and an aggressive and enthusiastic Hull forward pack dominated yours for most of the game.

Playing wellens at FB also made things easier for Hull as you know that although he is safe, he's not going to offer any real threat on his kick returns. mcdonnell would have been a much better attacking option for you.

Watching you without recognised halfs was pretty much like watching Hull for much of the last 7 years. Plenty of effort but no real direction or threat and you have no chance of making the GF with the personnel you have.

I don't think the team is a embarrassment. I think we've had some embarrassing performances but to be top of the league for most of the season means we must be doing something right.

It's just so frustrating that the clubs lack of signing a genuine halfback to partner Walsh has cost us our best chance in many years of the league leaders and a trip to old Trafford.

I posted before the season started that not having a "proper " 6 could come back to bite us on the bum and sorry to day it has.

(Please don't say lance is a genuine 6 because he's not. He's played well this year but he's not a genuine 6 and never will be)

Was just thinking the same thing, I dont think some of the fans on here are of the right standard for a team battling for top spot with 4 out of the 5 playmakers out for the season.

Fair enough there is certain levels of acceptance after a defeat, but some fans on here are definitely "London Broncos" standard.

We all want Wheeler and Turner to do well but in defeat its the usual fickle suspects who come in quickly to condemn it.

Do you not think the clubs lack of having two halfbacks like every other team in world rugby has ruined our season ?

Just in case you missed it, Lance has been excellent at 6 this season.

Its attitude that has played its part this season. If you go on the Leeds board there is a thread identifying this fact and is a reflection of superleague this year.

Lance had played well but he's not played like a genuine 6. Would you feel safe with lance being our ball player, directing us round the park and providing a kicking game?

By the way, I'm one of very few who have stuck up for lance.

He did well enough vs Leeds at LP. Leon Pryce wasn't a "genuine" halfback by the same arguments Hohaia isn't.

When people say "we need 2 halfbacks" what they actually mean is we need a 4th player who can play in the halves behind the 3 who we currently have who can play there competently... But that doesn't quite have the same affect.

We brought in Walshy to do that job with Lance operating as a running supporting 6. This has been a success this season.

I do think calling the team an embarrassment is sad indication of some posters. They are not an embarrassment, some people are either just here to stir or are living outside of the reality that we have no halfbacks.

It's like going into a test match with no fast bowlers, going into a football game with no mid-field. etc etc

It was a close game it's going to be chop and change in the halves until we can magic up some formula to give us some control of the game. It's not even about a kicking game, it sounded like we had plenty of field position, just not the brains to do anything once there.

Sorry but I don't agree.


We are well and truly lacking a 6. Far play to lance, he's done well and puts 100% in every week and often gets dumped on by Brown but he's not a 6. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

Let's look at the pies. If smith gets a broken leg, they have Blake Green that can steer the ship because both green and smith are halves.

What if Walsh went home after one month this year? We'd have been stuffed. We need a 6 and every man and his dog knows it.

Do you think saints are actively seeking out any 6 that might be available just for something to do? No, they are scouting the NRL and super league because we need one! Simple as that.

Yes he did play like a 6 against Leeds and his kicking that day was very good. Name another when he played the "proper" 6 role well?

No we don't need cover for lance and Walsh, we need a 6 to play with Walsh and that can sail the ship if Walsh is off form or out injured like now.

IMO we need a 6 and lance playing the utility off the bench and can spell robes. Saints know this, Brown knows this and that's why we want a genuine 6.

What world you prefer -

6) Burns/Brown/Mullan/campase
7) Walsh
14) Lance (bench)

Or

6) lance
7) Walsh
14) tommy lee/GOB or another back up player.

Brown got rid of Gaskell, a homegrown player who had helped us get to a Grand Final. I hope he's not getting rid of Swift in the same way.

It's defensive issues. I think swift offers so much more with the ball than Dawson that he has to play. We are going to struggle to put points on the board so we need our best attacking players out on the field.