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| Quote ="bewareshadows"
The talent is there, but the consistency during a match and from week to week is not.'"
And that is a problem when you have so many young players in your side, as we found out back in 2003/204.
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| Quote ="bewareshadows"Good win for Wire that one.
Saints once again gave an 18 point head start. It was like shades of the first 3 or 4 weeks where we gave away 16, 18 and 20 head starts to other teams. The first try was very good pressure from Monaghan a good example of the phrase you make your own luck. But then we just gave Warrington too many favours for the next 10 minutes. Ok the knock on not knock on, could have gone either way, in the end you'll see those types of drops in none try positions just get blown up the ref won't even consider whether the ball went back or not. But then later we knocked on 2 times at the wires end and the Wire fullback was away, so you could say it evened out when the ref pulled it back.
Apart from a terrible 10 minutes we played well as a team and the forwards were 100% better than last week.
Ok the top 2 is beyond us, but we are still in the hunt for the playoffs, and the CC. We will not have the mental edge come those games due to the losses to wigan , wire and huddersfield. But we will still be in the hunt and to be honest, being in the hunt is pretty good, many a team could be well out of the hunt by now. This is not a finished side, it's a side building for the future and we just need to have consistent performances for the full 80 each week.
The talent is there, but the consistency during a match and from week to week is not.'"
Exactly and if we ever get Clough and Pryce back (the later i am finding increasingly doubtful) and both can produce some usual form, and of course we don't get any other injuries, I think we are in great shape team wise. What concerns me is the levels of intensity we put in, it is so up and down. I'd also like to see us stop using the drop off pass after first receiver as it clearly doesn't work in gaining yards and is easier to read than a copy of the Daily Sport.
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| Quote ="Horatio Yed"Brutal honesty one my part Wire didn't win that game Ian Smith did.'"
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| Quote ="sir adrian morley"tony stark wants to grow up....'"
Care to expand and enlighten on that?
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| Quote ="saint at wire"Not sure about the logic.
we complain = he makes worse decisions against us;
so we should complain again = even worse decisions surely?
Am on holiday in turkey so missed the game but getting conflicting reports whether we were cheated by ref and vr? who is right?'"
No we where not cheated by the ref.
You get calls some week, other weeks you don't the cross bar thing was just terrible luck. But we had chances and a slightly drier night, slightly more experience in the halfs we'd have done it. But all that can come with time. If we can stop having a shocking opening 10 - 20 minutes, we may actually beat some of the top 4.
Despite the wire and Wigan being favourites to make the GF. In the end the only difference between 1+2 and 3+4 is the venue of the first fixture.
After that it's a knock out comp. More than likely it will be Saints Wigan at Wigan. So we just have to be ready for that come September.
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| Here's a question for you all, especially Ski.
Is LMS is really that much (salary cap wise) better than Bryn. Could the money have been better spent elsewhere?
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"And that is a problem when you have so many young players in your side, as we found out back in 2003/204.'"
Well hopefully we wont 'fix' it the way you did.
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| Quote ="No1 Saint"Well hopefully we wont 'fix' it the way you did.'"
It all depends how low you sink.
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| The obstruction certainly was, it sent Meli (a large bloke) in a spin which made him lose his balance and stopped him being able to put his full weight into the tackle he was turning around to make. If it had been say Sam Tomkins or Myler then they would have been put well into backplay after the contact and obstruction would have been given straight away.
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| Quote ="No1 Saint"Well hopefully we wont 'fix' it the way you did.'"
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Here's a question for you all, especially Ski.
Is LMS is really that much (salary cap wise) better than Bryn. Could the money have been better spent elsewhere?'"
To be fair I thought LMS had a better match tonight than last week, (although not that hard) I think the problem for bryn was that he offered no more than any other average forward, which I think some of the Bradford fans have noticed this year. He will do hard work but offers little else, LMS just seams to be under performing from what we expected, but then so has perry. The only difference has been that Perry has been in and out with injury so has some reason for his patchy form. LMS has had consistent games, could just be a case of a good player standing out in a poor team, where as at Saints he does not catch the eye like Soliola, TP and Graham.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Here's a question for you all, especially Ski.
Is LMS is really that much (salary cap wise) better than Bryn. Could the money have been better spent elsewhere?'"
I still think it's a bit early to call, if you were to compare both at this stage in their first season at Saints, then I believe we've gotten more out of LMS so far, BUT he needs to improve and will only do that with more game time and less time on the physio's bench. I think he could be a superb player, but as we know props only tend to reach their peak in their late 20's so LMS still has plenty of time to mature.
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| Quote ="Fishsta"Some of the tackling on display is brutal stuff.
Apart from Morley's high shot, it's been a relatively clean match so far.
I hope that try from the forward pass doesn't end up being the difference in this game. This game doesn't deserve that.
Good to watch.'"
Can i have the lottery numbers this week please? Got one prediction right so far
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| Quote ="Tony Stark"Exactly and if we ever get Clough and Pryce back (the later i am finding increasingly doubtful) and both can produce some usual form, and of course we don't get any other injuries, I think we are in great shape team wise. What concerns me is the levels of intensity we put in, it is so up and down. I'd also like to see us stop using the drop off pass after first receiver as it clearly doesn't work in gaining yards and is easier to read than a copy of the Daily Sport.'"
I think the Daily sport is really hard to read at the moment, aren't they out of business?????
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| Quote ="Ziggy Stardust"The obstruction certainly was, it sent Meli (a large bloke) in a spin which made him lose his balance and stopped him being able to put his full weight into the tackle he was turning around to make. If it had been say Sam Tomkins or Myler then they would have been put well into backplay after the contact and obstruction would have been given straight away.'"
I don't mind the decision, but I just wish we had some consistency. The one at Bradford that was denied was identical to that. In that case the dummy runner was Ashurst who was ambling along and brushed the Bradford defender. He recovered and got an unsuccessful tackle in on Lomax who scored. Disallowed as the runner had made contact.
Tonight the runner ran at the defensive line, he didn't target a gap, he ran at whoever was inside Meli. Meli was also drawn to him and he hit both players, causing the try. You can interpret it two ways, either a poor read by Meli and give the try, but you cannot give it a different way to the way you interpreted an identical incident in a game a couple of weeks previously.
Inconsistency is a major issue in SL. Look at Foster on Monaghan. Players sliding on the wet grass, Foster spins him out. Penalty given. Second half, truly identical incident Monaghan on Foster. Scrum to defense given. It's times like those that just make you want to grab the idiotic b"%^$"%$" and knock him onto Tesco carpark. The key decisions tonight you could argue were 50:50s. But you cannot give them a different way each time. If that obstruction happens next week in another game Smith would disallow it.
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| Quote ="bewareshadows"I think the Daily sport is really hard to read at the moment, aren't they out of business?????
'"
I didn't say it had to be a current copy
I'm sure there are probably loads of old copies in the woods of sankey valley
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| Quote ="Tony Stark"I still think it's a bit early to call, if you were to compare both at this stage in their first season at Saints, then I believe we've gotten more out of LMS so far, BUT he needs to improve and will only do that with more game time and less time on the physio's bench. I think he could be a superb player, but as we know props only tend to reach their peak in their late 20's so LMS still has plenty of time to mature.'"
But what I'm talking about is value per £. I don't know what their respective salaries are but I'll hazard a guess that LMS is on a LOT more than Hargreaves.
To compare them in their first season is a little unfair, as Hargreaves was much younger, I think I commented then that he would be "solid" for you but never a star.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"I don't mind the decision, but I just wish we had some consistency. The one at Bradford that was denied was identical to that. In that case the dummy runner was Ashurst who was ambling along and brushed the Bradford defender. He recovered and got an unsuccessful tackle in on Lomax who scored. Disallowed as the runner had made contact.
Tonight the runner ran at the defensive line, he didn't target a gap, he ran at whoever was inside Meli. Meli was also drawn to him and he hit both players, causing the try. You can interpret it two ways, either a poor read by Meli and give the try, but you cannot give it a different way to the way you interpreted an identical incident in a game a couple of weeks previously.
Inconsistency is a major issue in SL. Look at Foster on Monaghan. Players sliding on the wet grass, Foster spins him out. Penalty given. Second half, truly identical incident Monaghan on Foster. Scrum to defense given. It's times like those that just make you want to grab the idiotic b"%^$"%$" and knock him onto Tesco carpark. The key decisions tonight you could argue were 50:50s. But you cannot give them a different way each time. If that obstruction happens next week in another game Smith would disallow it.'"
Inconsistency is the biggest failure in SL and will continue to be. The Foster and Monaghan incidents you talk about are completly ridiculous, pretty identical, neither attacking player stopped their forward momentum but they were both lobbed into touch with different decisions.
The Meli incident would be peanilsed in every match if it was a smaller player recieving the same impact Bridge gave to Meli, the fact is Meli although dodgy at times is a big unit that takes some shifting and the impact impeded his ability to defend the situation to his full ability.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"But what I'm talking about is value per £. I don't know what their respective salaries are but I'll hazard a guess that LMS is on a LOT more than Hargreaves.
To compare them in their first season is a little unfair, as Hargreaves was much younger, I think I commented then that he would be "solid" for you but never a star.'"
Knowing the board I would highly doubt it would be as much as you think between the two salaries, LMS will undoubtably be on slightly more due to a number of factors but I would wager it won't be that much more.
Having said that i'm guessing LMS came to us with more first team starts under his belt and as a player still very much wanted by his club whereas I got the opinion Bryn certainly didn't feel wanted by Wigan at the time.
I think Louie is more of an athlete and could play a role similar to TP later down the line, IF he progresses.
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| Louie is already a cracking player. He's not physically massive and has clearly been working on integrating himself into the team and the defense in particular. At Quins he was teeing off left right and centre and bossing things. That will come next season I feel as he becomes comfortable with who he's playing next to and when he learns the attacking shapes and patterns. Playing for Saints is very different to Quins.
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| Quote ="Tony Stark"Knowing the board I would highly doubt it would be as much as you think between the two salaries, LMS will undoubtably be on slightly more due to a number of factors but I would wager it won't be that much more.
Having said that i'm guessing LMS came to us with more first team starts under his belt and as a player still very much wanted by his club whereas I got the opinion Bryn certainly didn't feel wanted by Wigan at the time.
I think Louie is more of an athlete and could play a role similar to TP later down the line, IF he progresses.'"
Wigan had three young props, Prescott, Hargreaves and O'Carroll. At the time they made the correct decision to let Hargreaves go, but then O'Carroll got that injury that has kept him out of the game for over twelve months.
I guess that's sport for you.
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| While we didn't get the calls tonight, and one or two calls were dodgy to say the least, they weren't the reason we lost IMO. We came with a much, much better attitude than we had against Wigan. However, our defence was poor again, we lost our composure again (meaning brainfarts) and we dropped too much ball again.
Having said all that, I was anticipating a loss and so I am not feeling the shock of last week. I thought it was quite sad that we lost tonight actually when clearly we did actually have the ability to win. Had those things that I just listed not been a part of our game.
We aren't ready to beat the teams above us. Maybe this season we won't be. Or maybe we will. Still nine games to go to find out, I guess.
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| just like to say that you as fans were great today stayed to the end even after the drop goal by briers. well done. a lot of teams fans would have started to walk (not mentioning any names) but not you, great support for your team.
edited for accuracy
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| =#FF0000You are adding nothing to this thread. If you have nothing constructive to say, don't say anything.
TS
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| We where decent, but not great. No one should win after giving an 18 - 0 head start. Other than 10 mins we where good. But that's the same as saying apart from losing we would have won.
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