I knew him too, what point are you trying to make here?



I never said it would. You were the one who said that "Okay IF Sky money is nothing at all, what would St Helens and others do if they withdraw, by your assumptions nothing would change, well that I see as a joke! as many clubs would either have no choice to go back to being part time or go bust! [iGate money will not cover wage bills[/i."

Saints debts have been ongoing since 1997, and account in the main for poor accounting and operating ventures that have not been fully costed.

Incidentally both Wigans debts after a decade of glory and the RFL debts without a large SKY deal accounted for over £10million prior to 1997. Now neither have debts (of any amount) and the RFL are in clear profit.

Rugby League clubs arent in the game to make a profit, they are in it to win trophies. SKY will come and go, we where professional for many many years prior to advertising and tv money became involved, it would happen again in the future.

Many people knew Peter, my point is that I worked with Peter in RL, I know what I am talking about when it comes to running of a RL Club and its administration, Peter got me to do the Australian RL Management Course with him to try and bring our great game out of the dark ages.

It is clear Sadfish only you have and know all the answers, criticism for me is hopefully constructive to try and improve my home town club or any other, if it comes to coaching of a RL team, you will never see my knock as I am not qualified and don't know all the facts.

I don't have all the answers but as a shareholder, a member or the independent fans bodies, and someone who meets with the club regularly for the heritage society I would like to think I'm pretty close to whats going on even if I am at arms length as I am, but I certainly would never know the answers and I certainly don't want to know the goings on day to day at the club, its not in great shape, but I think its in the best hands possible.

Sadfish, we should accept to agree to disagree, I respect everyone has their right to personal opinions, I can only ever use my professional training and knowledge.

Best,
John

Does that "professional training and knowledge" include the slightly odd statements you've been making in this thread?

I've no idea what we are agreeing to disagree about you seem to have limited to no knowledge of the Saints for a start.

You seem quick to judge Sadfish??

Well all my family have supported St Helens, Dad took me from the age of 6, I played later for what was called the Saints Junior Supporters Team, after finishing playing, I managed an under 16 team in the town. I rated Geoff Sutcliffe highly as the then Club Secretary and I spoke with him a lot and spent time with him, it was a career I would have loved. I did have an interview with Maurice L and spent time at Wilderspool, but I ended up at the St Helens Reporter and then all of my career in commercial radio. In my late 20's I was chosen to be a Lancashire Youth Selector and then Great Britain.

I still hold my hands up and admit I do not know everything about rugby league and I tend to as I was taught keep my mouth shut! but I will express opinions about what I do know facts about, though I tend not to judge others! who I don't know!!!!!!!

Thanks for the CV, but why?

And this has what to do with the stadium site, new stadium and the current running of the club?

Sadfish! let's leave it at that, you just seem stubborn! not sure if you think you are being clever? you are never going to listen to others opinions, or you are not able to?

I have expressed my opinion about the new stadium and site, all the St Helens public is being given is promises and not a lot of action!

The running of the club, the arrival of a new chairman seemed to be a new dawn, from the old board, but it has quickly turned a little cloudy! a lot of huff and puff, I'm allowed my opinion which is objective unlike your Red Coloured Biased Glasses View!

Even at the Quins RL site we have some who feel the words, site admin makes them Emperor or Knowledge!

I've never got that impression of Sadfish, definitely one of the more reasoned posters. If you think the planning, building and financing of a major sporting attraction is simple and can be done in a shorter timeframe, please tell us how?

Saint Simon,

I don't know who Sadfish is, but I do find trying to have to attack someone about there professional opinion, as a little belittling, yes disagree with them, which is everyone's right, but to try and play the game Sadfish has been playing, I find sad!

How long did Wilderspool take? but look at the way the Council worked closely with the club.

The blame lies jointly with St Helens Council and the current St Helens Board, we now have one of the most run down shopping areas in the North West and the Council have never showed much more commitment to the development of a new ground, while for me The Chairman has shown a lot of huff and puff and that is all, perhaps the developers are out of their depth with this one, I was always taught to give detailed information on any new project, but only what you know is achievable and going to be reached in any specific time period.

From the start I have said I want to see every RL club achieve their targets of new grounds, it can only be good for the game.

Please empower us with your views backed up by occurances or appropriate evidence and we will discuss your opinions.

The last thing the club said with regard to the new stadium was that the tendering process would complete in November.

I know the club are working on the project as i've had to re-arrange some meetings with them around their meetings with other parties involved.

But there is nothing to report as far as I know, I was in about 5 weeks ago and it was all systems go and waiting for the tender processes to complete.

I would suspect the next part of the process will be to release details of tenders winners and cutting a sod, but even on the timescales announced in August at the shareholders meetings that won't be until the new year at the earliest.

Feel free to add you own input here if you know any different..............................

It's not stubborn or "clever" to challenge what you've been posting. He's been pretty much spot-on in his responses, and he doesn't have to hide behind name-dropping Deakin in an attempt to add weight to his otherwise unsupported arguments.

and I wouldnt have started this website 10 years ago if i'd not wanted people to offer their ideas to the world.

I bet you'd have thought twice if you knew it would give the wider world the opinions of xxxBrettKennyxxx and their ilk, though!

Haha no there is no monopoly on opinion in my book, even stupid opinions have their merit

Not all that many pictures in this picture thread is there.

They should make me a mod, I'd delete all the off topic nonsense people seem to be posting.

Come on please read back what Sadfish has to say! "but as a shareholder, a member or the independent fans bodies, and someone who meets with the club regularly for the heritage society I would like to think I'm pretty close to whats going on" add to that today's comment "I wouldnt have started this website 10 years ago"

All I was saying Mr J Willard Gibbs, is that I have trained and worked in RL Club administration, I am not talking as someone just with conjecture. I will always show respect to others and their expertise I may have had training in business accounts but I would never argue with my chartered accountant.

Thanks Sadfish for the latest detailed information on progress with the new ground, this is more than has been released to the local media, many understood that an updated announcement was to be made in November.

Any type of business and more a sports club needs to handle it's PR and media, the information you reveal would have been helpful to many I am sure.

I have no idea what you're getting at with this, in conjunction with my post that you quoted.



You have not shown respect to others, though - you've misrepresented what they have said in this thread re. the influence of the Sky money, for example. That is not a mark of respect in my book.

Your training in admin is only relevant when applied to particular, specific things - and so far what you've said amounts to some nebulous claims about the capability of the current board. Like Sadfish said, give us details otherwise it's not constructive!

Quote ="jaybs"Thanks Sadfish for the latest detailed information on progress with the new ground, this is more than has been released to the local media, many understood that an updated announcement was to be made in November. Any type of business and more a sports club needs to handle it's PR and media, the information you reveal would have been helpful to many I am sure.'" even as far back as September the next announcement was set for early 2010. For someone who has such good RL Management Skills you don't seem to be able to even do a simple google search. www.cnplus.co.uk/news/six-battle ... 98.article And i'm not getting at you mate, if people or you have information that is useful to either us or the club then lets hear it, i'm all for being proven wrong, and I won't pander to those who run the club anymore than anyone else, I have no alliegences to anyone, and there can always be improvements, but understanding the club is something I try and do and this is the busiest time of the year for the marketing and merchandising side and thats pretty much the same people involved in the new stadium, hence the lack of updates at this time of year.

Quote ="jaybs"Thanks Sadfish for the latest detailed information on progress with the new ground, this is more than has been released to the local media, many understood that an updated announcement was to be made in November. Any type of business and more a sports club needs to handle it's PR and media, the information you reveal would have been helpful to many I am sure.'" even as far back as September the next announcement was set for early 2010. For someone who has such good RL Management Skills you don't seem to be able to even do a simple google search. www.cnplus.co.uk/news/six-battle ... 98.article And i'm not getting at you mate, if people or you have information that is useful to either us or the club then lets hear it, i'm all for being proven wrong, and I won't pander to those who run the club anymore than anyone else, I have no alliegences to anyone, and there can always be improvements, but understanding the club is something I try and do and this is the busiest time of the year for the marketing and merchandising side and thats pretty much the same people involved in the new stadium, hence the lack of updates at this time of year.

I stand by my claim that the money from Sky distributed to all Super League clubs, added to that money for the home club appearing is lots more relevant to the finances of clubs than made out by some here, if that is not a mark of respect in your eyes, then we think very differently.

Nebulous claims? so no one is able to question the Chairman? and that is what it really is rather than board?

Sadly unlike football, some of the RL forums tend to have a "clique" that will stick together rather than just accept opinions!

You have not addressed what I said.

That's a complete red herring in the context of misrepresenting [iother people's[/i views.



Question away, but don't expect anyone to take you seriously without demonstrating you know what you're talking about. Banging on about some course you did means nothing when your comments on this thread cast your ability to make any sort of "professional" assessment into doubt.



The fact that you're posting shows your opinions are "accepted". If you want people to assign any real weight to them, you have to earn it.

Your problem seems to be not that people won't "accept" your opinions, but that people are not willing to treat them as authoritative. And without good reason, why should they?

That is your opinion J Willard Gibbs, I do not need to defend my career experience on a forum. Respect, I have always earned throughout my career and that is all that is important, not faceless people on forums.

I Hope St Helens get a new RL ground, sooner than later, but too often comments on forums and in the weekly RL press show how parochial our game truly is and I doubt it will ever change, though that does not mean I will sit back and accept it.

Expressing opinions is not a popularity contest ,though many seem only to wish for that!

Best,
John