Simple as, who would you pick as your starting 17 next season, or what do you think Brown will play?

mine is

1. Makinson
2. Gardner
3. Turner
4. Jones
5. Meli
6. Gaskell
7. Lomax
8. Perry
9. Roby
10. Puletua
11. Manu
12. Laffranchi
13. Wilkin

14. Hohaia
15. Sia
16. LMS
17. Walmsley/Clough

1. Wellens
2. Gardner
3. Turner
4. Lomax
5. Meli
6. Wheeler
7. Gaskell
8. Perry
9. Roby
10. LeFrank
11. Manu
12. Sia
13. Wilkin

14. LMS
15. TP
16. Clough
17. Hohaia

That's assuming Wheeler books his ideas up anyway - otherwise as above but:

4. Jones
6. Gaskell
7. Lomax

1 lance
2 makinson
3 turner
4 Jones
5 meli
6 gaskell
7 lomax
8 Perry
9 roby
10 laffranchi
11 Manu
12 sia
13 tony p

Subs

14 wellens
15 Wilkin
16 lms
17 clough

1. Makinson/Swift
2. Gardner
3. Jones
4. Meli
5. Turner
6. Gaskell
7. Lomax
8. Perry
9. Roby
10. Puleatua
11. Manu
12. Soliola
13. Lafrancchi

14. Clough
15. LMS
16. Hohaia
17. Flanaghan

1 - Makinson
2 - Foster
3 - Turner
4 - Jones
5 - Meli
6 - Lomax
7 - Gaskell
8 - Perry
9 - Roby
10 - LMS
11 - Wilkin
12 - Manu
13 - Puletua

14 - Lanfranchi
15 - Soliola
16 - Clough
17 - Flanagan

I win.

WOW that's bold NO Wilkin at all!

Mine would be:

1 Lance
2 Makinson
3 Turner
4 Jones
5 Meli
6 Gaskell
7 Lomax
8 Perry
9 Roby
10 Tony P
11 Manu
12 sia
13 Wilkin

Subs

14 Wellens
15 Laffranchi
16 LMS
17 Clough

And I'd like to see Walmsley pull on a shirt at some point.

Realistically, any coach would have him in for his workrate in defence, but i feel he epitomises our lack of bite. He's misused going forward, generally getting in the way of the halves, although his tackle count is high, his defence lacks physicality and, to be honest, he's one of a few forwards that are just a bit too nice on the pitch.

All in all, I reckon his potentially high salary could be used to better use.

I don't have anything against him. His workrate shows his commitment to the cause, but I don't think he's right for Saints at the moment.

I also hope to see Walmsley, but given they've dual regged him for a year, any appearences from him will be a bonus for me.

I'd like to see

Makinson
Foster
Turner
Jones
Meli
Gaskell
Lomax
Laffa
Robes
Perry
Manu
Sia
Wilkin

Lance
Cough
Tp
Lms
This gives you 3 goal kickers.

However I see brown picking

Wellens
Gardner
Turner
Meli
Makinson
Gaskell
Lomax
Perry
Robes
Laffa
Tp
Manu
Wilkin

Lms
Sia
Clough
Lance

I understand what your saying and although I agree with some of it I believe when left to play his natural game instead of being a kicker/half back I think he does have the quality we need.

We'll see though, he's been a great servant and you don't get as many caps as him if you don't offer something.

The most interesting aspect of Brown's arrival is how he deals with the sloth, the donkey and the exiled two. I can't wait to see if Brown's heart is in the job and whether he's got his own mind, or whether he's just another useless yes man like the previous three coaches.

Firstly Wello. Not got any of the required attributes to be a modern fullback. Brown clearly knows what they are having moved Greg Eden there for Huddersfield. Hopefully he'll do the same with Makinson at Saints.

Secondly Hohaia. We all knew he was no halfback, despite Eamon's claims and he proved that with a season full of anonymous performances. It's either interchange hooker or fullback for the diminutive Kiwi, but will Brown have the cojones to stand up to Mr Big and move him, thus proving it to be a poor signing?

Then there is Lee Gaskell. What happens to him now Rush ostracised him? It'll be majorly awkward if he's just brought back in as it undermines Rush. But it's the right thing to do, so it should happen. What Brown does with Lance will probably decide this, presuming we've not got the ambition (icon_wink.gif) or capability to sign a proper halfback this season. It would be an absolute joke if Lee Gaskell was allowed to leave Saints with Wello and Hohaia continuing in their positions.

Lastly there is Jamie Foster. He was everyone's favourite scapegoat, purely because he's so pretty (Admit it). He had a bad run, during a time in which the whole team was having a bad run, and was mercilessly singled out and mocked. The club then drop him, ignore his excellent performances for the academy and then ship him off to Hull. Makinson had spells where he was no better than Foster last season, as did Meli. I'd like to see Foster back in and playing on the wing. We'd have a reliable goalkicker, which we lacked this season, and he's a decent finisher. He's got more pace than Gardner as well and would be hungry to prove himself. But it's all too easy to just leave him out.

Brown has already been in contract with gaskell and told him what he expects and what will be happening next season and lets say lee was happy with what's he heard

Lets hope it half back and not full back cause saw Gaskell play there to the back end of last year for 20's

Is ur source reliable 1984

I hope you don't mind if I take that with a pinch of salt, but it would be nice if it's true.
I assume the coversation went soething like.
"Lance is crap at 6, so I'll probably give you a run out"

I don,t think he will, Makinson will stay on the wing. Eden has made some reasonable run returns but he is a disaster for errors one of the worse in superleague. We don,t want to gamble with Makinson in an exposed position.
Alsio if we took out Wellens, Meli and Lance out all at once, that would leave us with the most inexperienced back line in Superleague......not good.

I would trust this lad with my life he as no need to lie

If you are asking for our strongest line up then it's hard to choose at this stage as no one is playing and people can be great one year and pap the next.

Personally I'm hoping to see more than our best 17 each week, because it limits the squad, which for me limits competition for places an without the competition for places, people get lazy and don't perform at their best.

I'd be happy with the work load being shared out a bit more this year, some chance given at FB to someone other than Wellens (I'm not saying I would not pick him for key games but it's way past time we started to see who can step up to the mark when he leaves), I'd also like to see a halfback at halfback.

No true Saints fan would EVER refer to Wellens as 'the sloth'.

I always knew Saddened was a Wire.

Careful son, my army of fans have killed people for less than that.

I think the best 17 should be the side with the players that are best suited to defeating the opposition, this can vary from match to match.

In some games you may be playing against a side thats a bit lightweight so you could go for size and bully them across the park.
Another week and you may play a team like Wire or Leeds who have a decent pack but also plenty of pace and good field kickers. Therefore you need to incorporate more speed in your backline along with a strong kick game.

Furthermore we know this is Melis last season coming up and possibly also Wello's, therefore there has to be rotation at fullback and wing to manage the transition for 2014.

However I suspect the backline will probably look like this for most games

Wellens
Makinson
Turner
Meli
Foster

Meli and Turner give us good pace and power on the first tackle option following a kick return. This then can put the defending team on the backfoot, allowing Roby or whoever goes into dummy half to either scoot or bring the forwards into play on the next play.

We need to move Wello out in some of the lesser home games and for these i would look to playing Swift at Fullback. The perfect modern fullback is fast, elusive and has a good rugby brain. Swift we have already seen is fast and agile. He also is a standoff by trade so should have the footballing brain as well. The one thing we dont know is how he handles the positional and pressure side of fullback. This we need to find out by giving him matches against the likes of Salford and Widnes at home.

Josh Jones would not be out in the wilderness, but i think he was overused a bit last year, as for me it was noticeable that he faded a bit later on in the season. Its a real tough ask for a teenager to play nearly 20 games against men. So this year i would look to possibly bring him in for 10- 15 games. Possibly interchanging with Meli from the bench. Josh is actually an ideal bench sub as he can cover second row and standoff as well. Who knows maybe Josh will also be seen at loose forward in the future.

Wheeler. Got all the talent, but he really needs to stay clear of injury, otherwise i think Saints will waive the white flag with him. Defo got the talent to start in the centres or halves, but can you afford to risk it, knowing there is a good chance he will get an injury. Think he will get 10 or so games next season, but would like him to play a full injury free season so we could see if he can make that step to star player status.

The halves is another toughy. Basically we can go for Lomax, Gaskell, Wheeler and Hohoia.
I think Lomax is a bang on certainty. I'd be tempted to pair him with Wheeler.
What of Gaskell and Hohoia. I think Lance could be used as interchange hooker and perhaps in some games will be used as starting hooker with Roby getting a breather or being played at Loose forward.
Gaskell. I can see Brown using him in some games in a quasi loose forward role, similar to that in which he had Kevin Brown operating.
What is sure is i think he will be given more game time than this year, as he needs to be brought on.

I dont think its worth talking about the pack as they will get rotated to help them get over knocks and also stay fresh.
One things for sure the pack will be big and mobile and have plenty of depth.

Agreed, but Meli can't do this returning from centre... We have no kick return from Wello so the wingers need to shoulder this burden instead. With Wellens, Makinson and Foster carting the kick returns up you might as well just give us a 2nd tackle on our 10 every set of six... Meli must play on the wing preferably with Gardner on the other side to give us the momentum you speak of - the above 3/4 line would be every opposition kicking game's dream.



No way - Lomax and Gaskell are way too similar to work as a partnership and would be little better than Hohaia/Lomax has been. If one plays in the halves then the other must place centre or fullback. Gaskell is unfortonately the only player we have at the moment with the skillset to create a balanced half back partnership with Lomax or Wheeler, even though he's not ready yet to assume the mantle of our primary organiser and creator (and may never be). I think Wheeler is the more natural half and could take more of the load off Gaskell while he's learning the trade so that would be the pairing to go for if Wheeler gets his head in the game next year. I reckon we'll be seeing a Lomax/Gaskell partnership with Wheeler intemittently in the centres however.

That why I've picked Turner and Gardner on the wings.
Meli in the centre is perfect for me, all of his strengths, none of his weaknesses - he's one of the most dangerous 3/4s in the league and I'd rather have him in one, getting the ball and creating chances for us.
Turner has been questioned as to his defensive positioning in the centre channel and tackling capababilities, so starting him on the wing will tone any weakness down, whilst still giving us a big athletic lad on the wing to finish and return kicks.
Garner's kick returning when he was fit last year was awesome. Whether he could sustain it for a season is a question mark, I guess, but worth a start for this reason. He's pretty good under kicks, too, when in [ithe zone[/i.

I will be very surprised if Wello isnt at 1 all year. at some point we have to try someone else there be it Makinson, lomax, Ashe? as the regular season means nothing anyway we might as well try different people there

I agree that having a strong kick return from Wingers is a useful bonus. However i think Saints in recent years have become obsessed with it to the detriment of having a balanced backline. As a result we have had little or no flair and pace outwide.
I also think that people can become blind to thinking that a kick return starts and finishes with the fullback or wings on the immediate play in which they receive the ball. In reality the kick return encompasses the entire set of 6 tackles and includes the kick on the final tackle.

Foster and Makinson dont possess the power to come infield and make a rampaging run on the first tackle like Meli and Gardner, however this does not mean they cannot make yards on the kick return. Its more of a case that when they come into tackle contact they are easily put to ground. The key then is what happens on the next play. With Shenton and Wheeler at centre as per the last couple of years, Saints had to resort to using forwards as neither of those two players possessed any physical presence to undertake a damaging dummy half run following the kick return by Makinson or Foster.
Move forward to next season however, and Jordan Turner is a strong fast bloke who can support the forwards workload going forward. Meli or Josh Jones also possess the physical presence to actually get on top of a defending side and get the defenders on the backfoot from the centre positions.
Hence i feel that the combination of initial kick return followed by next tackle play presents the opportunity to make more metres in return than has been the case in recent years.

Its also wrong to state Wello doesnt possess kick return, he does. The issue is that he doesnt present an attacking threat from deep due to his lack of pace. Stick with Gardner and Meli out wide on the wings and all three backs have no threat from distance. Go with Foster and Makinson however and they do present options in that they can both go 60 to 70 metres if the opportunity presents itself.

One other thing worth considering is that its not beyond the realms of possibility that the coach would for example play Turner at Centre but have him dropping back on the fifth tackle to cover kick returns.

Nathan Brown rates Josh Jones very highly, I'm certain he will feature.