I've just been thinking about how many of the 2012 Saints would get into the 2006 line up. Even though that 2006 team was the best I've personally seen, you'd still think 6 years later we may have improved on the odd position.

Fullback:

2006: Wellens
2012: Wellens

No doubt Wello was in the form of his life in 2006 and despite him not being nearly as bad as some on here make out, his performances have certainly declined since then. Not a criticism, just a fact of life.

Wing:

2006: Gardner, Meli
2012: Gardner, Meli

I'd say they're both about the same as they were really. Maybe Ade has upped his individual game but doesn't get the credit due to playing outside a poor centre.

Centre:

2006: Lyon, Talau
2012: Shenton, Wheeler.

Not much needs to be said here.

Halves:

2006: Pryce, Long
2012: Hohaia, Lomax

2 bona-fide game winners replaced by a stand off who doesn't want to know and a hooker/full back playing at 7.

Props:

2006: Graham, Anderson, Fa'asavalu, Cayless
2012: LMS, Laffranchi, Puletua, Perry

It's quite painful looking at that. Only TP would have a sniff of breaking into that foursome

Back row:

2006: Hooper, Wilkin, Scully
2012: Wilkin, Soliola, Flannery

Scully was struggling by now but was still light years ahead of Flanno. Soliola would probably have made that 17 in 2006 because Anderson wouldn't have stood for him shooting out of the line all the time

Hooker:

2006: Keiron
2012: Roby

All things told you'd say it was fairly even despite them having very different games

Squad members:

2006: Fozzard, Gilmour, Vinnie, Roby
2012: Flanagan, Clough, Jones, Foster, Gaskell, Dixon


Makes bad reading doesn't it. How the 2006 squad was kept around the salary cap was incredible. How the 2012 earns the full cap is equally incredible.

You have to account for changes in tax and paying players via image rights, not to mention the offers available from the NRL v SL in those days compared to now.

That's why there is so much emphasis on building your own as there simply is not the loopholes any more, unless you are going to be an consultant as well as a RL player.

But this is 2012 not 2006 - there is no point saying how much better it was then because we are in the here and now.

Is there no point talking about any of our history then? It's a comparison to see how good we had it back then, and maybe to look at what we need to become challengers again.



Good points although I'd argue that Wigan, Leeds and Wire are all better off now than then.

I would imagine not 1 single player from 2012 would get in the first 13 of the 2006 team, Roby, Lomax and Soliola/Puletua probably be bench players.

Saints 2006 would do to Saints 2012 just what Wigan did at the weekend. Mercilessly take us apart with incisive attacking moves and a punishing defence. Wigan, this season, remind me of us back in 2006.

I would imagine Saints 2006 would have beaten Wigan 2012 by a similar score to last week, Saints 2006 would have beaten Saints 2012 by a similar 75 - 0 scoreline all those years ago.

...unless, seemingly you're Warrington.... or Wigan when they need a personalised bespoke loophole creating to keep a player...

Anyway, the point is pointless as standards have declined substantially in the game even since 2006. Never mind current Saints being able to match Saints 2006 - I very much doubt any other team in the league would have given them a game either. You'd have to put together a "best 17" from all players around today to stand much chance of finding a current GB team that could have beaten Saints '06.

Makes depressing reading does'nt it? But it's just transisition look how low Bradford and Wigan have been after dominating. It's no good supporting them when they win everything if your not gonna bother when they have tough patches.

Perry might've made it in the props. He would've been around 24/25 and not sure on when he played for Aus but he has so he might have been still at international/SOO level.....maybe.....possibly...

You're right to an extent. Standards certainly have declined. I just looked back at that team and to see us recruit no-one of at least similar standard to the players we had is disappointing. Graham, Anderson and Lyon were complete one offs and unreplaceable in the 2012 climate. But to see the likes of Shenton, Flannery and Hohaia in place of Talau, Gilmour, Pryce, especially when two of those players are still running around (and are British) shows bad player selection.

Agreed that losing Gilmour seems ever stranger with every passing year. But as I've said many a-time, Shenton was by far the best centre out there at the time - he still is if he can reclaim form/fitness. I'd love to know who people think we could have signed instead who would have been any better... And as for Hohaia, clearly Pryce wanted too many years and £s for us to be able (or want to be able with his injuries) to pay and, with Eastmond being off, we were desperate for a half and Hohaia was just simply the best candidate available without a transfer fee. Again - who else was there available that, without the benefit of hindsight, we would have signed at the time instead? Those signings haven't worked out and our team has been lessened as a result, but it's more down to luck and timing and the fates and the inexorable decline in GB player quality than it is to the oft criticised Saints recruitment policy.

Ryan Atkins?

He went a year before Shenton and so isn't directly comparable, and (depending on who you believe) we intended to play Sia and Gidley in the centres for that season instead, so you can't really complain about poor recruiting there (we couldn't have known at the time how badly Gidley was going to fall off in that last year). We'dve had to have competed with Warrington's accountants to get him too so would have had little chance in that department... Given a choice 2 years ago I'dve taken Shenton ahead of Atkins anyway.

In fairness, I was happy with the signing at the time. I think it was less a case of bad recruitment and more a case of a promising youngish player who has failed to live up to his promise.

I bet if Billy Slater was playing full back we wouldn't be having these discussions about Shenton.

If Shenton is struggling for confidence and we absolutely [imust [/iplay him then I'd seriously consider pushing him out to the wing.

But we've signe Hohaia to a 4 year deal and he wouldn't be upping sticks from overseas for peanuts. In hindsight (which is a wonderful thing) a 3 year deal for Leon on the money Hohaia is on would have been a much better option.

Shenton had a good finish to last season but looked fairly ordinary at the start of the season and mediocre at best this year. Had we kept Leon, we could have looked at a quota player for the centre.

The problem with Shenton is that to a certain extent Saints have de skilled him. Very rarely gets any quality ball even worse this season with no half back play. Shenton most of the time gets lateral dead end ball with the defence well up on him with no space to work. We dont chip through into space for him to run into because we don,t have a skilful kicker, we don,t create a dummy runner to give him an inside ball because we don,t have half backs with skilful play. Shenton looks frustrated more than anything due to the teams inconsistency and lack of game plans.

No, none of that counts as you well know - he's just a completely **** player, it's his own fault he never gets any ball and we should have signed any of dozens of other top centres that were available instead on much less money.

With my Warrington bias hat on, I would say....... Warrington Wolves version 2011 would have beaten them.

Taking my Warrington bias hat off, I would say....... Warrington Wolves version 2011 would have beaten them.

I was spitting mad at Leon going, but we don't know all the circumstances so the whys and wherefores are all just idle speculation that won't get us anywhere. Given that he and Cashmond were on the way then we were left in a frankly pretty desperate situation a year ago. 4 years for a utility back to be your main half was a crazy move and many of us questioned it at the time, but maybe Saints simply just didn't have an awful lot of alternatives. Wigan are having to sign Matty Smith for chrissakes - nothing more about the dire state of halfback talent in this league needs to be said than that.



I've said it before - put Paul Newlove in a Saints #3 shirt now and he'd look ordinary. If we'd spent all our spare cap and quota space on a top Aussie centre he'd look ordinary too. Centre is not our big problem area. Halfback most definitely is.

Ah yes, the all-conquering 2011 Wolfs side that stood head and shoulders above all other teams and swept all before them in an unstoppable tide cleaning up all the trophies on the way.





ah....

I could ALMOST buy into this - if it weren't for the fact that Josh Jones has looked more than useful at centre with the same quality of service. The big difference is Jones [iactively looks for the ball[/i and if it isn't moving his direction he will hunt closer to midfield. Shenton might as well be on rails for all the lateral movement he undertakes.

But Shenton doesnt get the same quality of service,the ball is so slow going right compared to going left and added to this Sia is the right 2nd row and the ball doesnt get past him.More or less every time Shenton gets the ball its been so slow to get to him that he has no room to work.

Jones has played ON THE LEFT and has seen a tiny little bit of ball... Shenton has played ON THE RIGHT and so has seen none... And 'round and 'round the circular argument goes....