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| Here's a thought ... the overseas situation is now as follows:
Quota
Flannery
Perry
Soliola
Hohaia
Non-Fed
Perry
Hohaia
Laffranchi
Puletua
Soliola
Even though we have one quota space left, we're maxed out on non-fed players, so we can't sign anyone from the NRL now.
The only overseas players we could sign from another club would be ones that have already been here since before 2008, and that seems highly unlikely.
Now, the logic behind letting Flannery go has always been that he isn't special enough to take up a quota spot. But the reality now is that we couldn't sign another overseas player even if Flannery left (as a pre-2008 signing he only counts on the quota list).
So, with this in mind, I'd say it's worth rethinking our position over Flannery. Should we make him an offer for another year or two, taking advantage of his versatility and reliability, or should we let him go anyway and clear a path for one of our younger back rowers?
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| I'm not even sure that you can sign/resign a player who was here before 2008 and he still be exempt. Was that stipulation not just for the length of the already signed contract?
The overseas limits really are a minefield of red tape, smoke and mirrors.
I thought it only applied to contracts signed pre 2008, and therefore any new contracts would come under the new rules.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"I'm not even sure that you can sign/resign a player who was here before 2008 and he still be exempt. Was that stipulation not just for the length of the already signed contract?
The overseas limits really are a minefield of red tape, smoke and mirrors.'"
They are indeed. I was led to believe in a thread on the VT that the exemption lasts until retirement.
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| Quote ="Dux"So, with this in mind, I'd say it's worth rethinking our position over Flannery. Should we make him an offer for another year or two, taking advantage of his versatility and reliability, or should we let him go anyway and clear a path for one of our younger back rowers?'" You've still got to pay him, though. Unless you can re-sign him cheap, I say let him go. With laffranchi coming in our 1st choice back row trio will be him, Sia and Wilkin and we know Royce likes to start a prop like Tony P or Clough at 13. With Magennis, Dixon and Ashurt all in reserve, I'd say it would be folly to match what Flanders could be getting elsewhere.
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| Quote ="Offside Monkey"With laffranchi coming in our 1st choice back row trio will be him, Sia and Wilkin and we know Royce likes to start a prop like Tony P or Clough at 13.'"
Royce has gone on record saying he'll be using Laffranchi as a prop, though. But on the limited resources I take your point. A lot will depend on how what we're paying Hohaia and Laffranchi relates to what we offered Eastmond and Graham.
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| Quote ="Offside Monkey"With Magennis, Dixon and Ashurt all in reserve, I'd say it would be folly to match what Flanders could be getting elsewhere.'"
True. If a quality back became available then I think the money would be better spent there. How many are available, though?
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| So are you suggesting we cannot possibly sign Waterhouse now? Rumours and news articles a plenty in Aus about him joining Saints still.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"So are you suggesting we cannot possibly sign Waterhouse now? Rumours and news articles a plenty in Aus about him joining Saints still.'"
Not as far as I can see. The only way it would be possible would be if TP signed his first contract with us before the non-fed regulations came into force, but as he only joined us in 2009 I can't see that being the case. I must admit I don't know the exact cut off point, but I think it's the beginning of the '08 season (presumably TP signed for us midway through that season).
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| To be quiet honest I am happy with the pack we have now and there is no need to go overseas in that department. The backs is another matter mind and if a quality left centre became available I can see this could restrict us from signing him. However so far I am really happy with the signings for 2012 and its only slightly eased the pain of losing Kyle Eastmond and more importantly James Graham. I dont believe we should offer Chris Flannery a new contract because I believe there are better English Back Row Forwards that can become available. Flannery has done a job for us and thats about it really.
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| I thought Laffranchi was coming over on an Italian passport, if he is he won`t count on any quotas.
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| Quote ="Southport Saint"I thought Laffranchi was coming over on an Italian passport, if he is he won`t count on any quotas.'"
If he's an Italian citizen then it would be illegal to count him on any quotas I would think.
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| I think this amply demonstrates that....nobody actually knows. It's the most ludicrous set of 'rules' in any sport, surely.
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| Quote ="Southport Saint"I thought Laffranchi was coming over on an Italian passport, if he is he won`t count on any quotas.'"
Quote ="SaintsFan"If he's an Italian citizen then it would be illegal to count him on any quotas I would think.'"
Laffranchi doesn't count on the old style, nationality based quota. He does count on the new non-fed system, which is based not on your nationality but on where you learned your trade, and was brought in precisely to get round the problem of overseas players getting in on an EU or Kolpak passport.
Quote ="Allez"I think this amply demonstrates that....nobody actually knows. It's the most ludicrous set of 'rules' in any sport, surely.'"
It's as I've outlined above, trust me. It's hopelessly complicated at the moment, but only because the RFL have had to grant exemptions to a host of players at the outset in order to cover their backs legally. Once those exemptions run out it should work fine and be a straightforward case of 5 overseas trained players, and that's it.
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| So can we still sign waterhouse or hayne ?
Just a simple yes or no will do.
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| The answer is no
The orginal poster omitted Puletua from the quota list
If the current players are re-contracted the 5 in each group would be
Quota Non-Fed
Puletua Puletua
Soliola Soliola
Perry Perry
Hoihia Hoihia
Flannery Laffranchi
Meli is Kolpak and Federation Trained (dispensated)
If Flannery wasn't re-contracted a Quota could be brought in but he would need to be a Federation Trained player (likely with a dispensation like for instance Glenn Morrison). Any Kolpak player would also need to be Federation Trained (example Solomona)
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| Sorry the space between both columns has disappeared
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| So it looks more like saints was after either laffranchi or waterhouse and not both or waterhouse was a fall back if TP didn't sign.
Seems strange tho that saints said laffranchi wasn't counted as a overseas player.
If true that flannery is exempt and we can resign him then if we've got the cap space then I'd keep him.
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| St Pete
What they did say was that Laffranchi would not count on the Quota (overseas quota) as he was an Italian passport holder.
However he does count as a Non-Federated Trained player.
You are right that the mention of Waterhouse was dependant on Puletua not being resigned.
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| Quote ="markjohn"The answer is no
The orginal poster omitted Puletua from the quota list
If the current players are re-contracted the 5 in each group would be
Quota Non-Fed
Puletua Puletua
Soliola Soliola
Perry Perry
Hoihia Hoihia
Flannery Laffranchi
Meli is Kolpak and Federation Trained (dispensated)
If Flannery wasn't re-contracted a Quota could be brought in but he would need to be a Federation Trained player (likely with a dispensation like for instance Glenn Morrison). Any Kolpak player would also need to be Federation Trained (example Solomona)'"
Puletua has a Samoan passport so is non-quota but he is still on the non fed list as he only signed in 2009.
I do think we are full up though. Unless there is something odd about Laffranchi's deal of which we are unaware of. We'll see over the next few weeks, Andy Wilson last night thought that both deals were still on (TP and Trent) but he might not have thought about our quota when he said it.
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Quote ="markjohn"St Pete
What they did say was that Laffranchi would not count on the Quota (overseas quota) as he was an Italian passport holder.
However he does count as a Non-Federated Trained player.
You are right that the mention of Waterhouse was dependant on Puletua not being resigned.'"
www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/809
It's says he's off quota.
Take that as you please.
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Quote ="markjohn"St Pete
What they did say was that Laffranchi would not count on the Quota (overseas quota) as he was an Italian passport holder.
However he does count as a Non-Federated Trained player.
You are right that the mention of Waterhouse was dependant on Puletua not being resigned.'"
www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/809
It's says he's off quota.
Take that as you please.
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| Quote ="St pete"www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/809
It's says he's off quota.
Take that as you please.'"
he is, but he's non fed trained
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| Quote ="Saint Simon"he is, but he's non fed trained'"
Simon, stop spoiling it for me!
I like waterhouse, he's good player and have always liked him. Was over the moon when heard we'd signed him but looks like it was all $hit!
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| Saint Chris
I think you will find he is registered as a Quota player at Saints, Don't confuse playing for a country with holding a passport for that country.
If he does hold or obtains a Samoan passport he could be taken off quota, though it would make little difference as he would remain a Non-Federation Trained player, less a Quota player with a dispensation of Federation Trained was signed (example Glenn Morrison).
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| So basically Flannery has gone either way.
Soliola,
Puletua
Perry
Lance
Leufuefef . lol
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| Quote ="markjohn"Saint Chris
I think you will find he is registered as a Quota player at Saints, Don't confuse playing for a country with holding a passport for that country.'"
How can TP count towards the quota when he holds the passport of a Kolpak country? Nationals of Kolpak countries are excluded from the quota.
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