My rant this week isn't going to be about our deluded Chairman or our woeful halfbacks or even our shambolic, unambitious recruitment. It's not even about how inept Childs was tonight or about how shocking our performance was. It's about the style of play we have.

To me it feels like the soul of our club died when we left Knowsley Road. We used to play the game at speed, everything was done quickly and in an exciting way. We had ambition, we tried things and we never knew when we were beaten. Even when we weren't the best we'd try to be. Offloads, attacking from deep, flowing moves, flair.

Now, its rinse and repeat one out barges by our overworked pack. Everything is slow, boring and regimented. There is no creativity, no passion, no ambition.

Personally I don't see any of this improving with KC and McManus in charge.

We need a coach that fist pumps and wears shades ASAP.

I'm bored at the games. I find myself watching idiots in the crowd or messing on my phone as im so bored.

Hudds will put a score on us next week.

Same here but it's nothing to do with the ground it's got everything to do with th ecoach and personel at the club. Just look at the impact Daryl Powell's had at Cas. He made Sneyd look like a international half last year and is doing the same with Gale this year. Attractive Rugby League played the right way and great recruitment.

The one thing that annoyed me the most was when Hull just scored were 8 points up with 9 mins to go, the Saints players just strolled up very slowly to the centre spot, they might as well just waved a white flag, no urgency, passion or will to get back in the game.

LMS having a right go at Percival who in turn had a go at Fleming in the first five minutes wasn't good to see.

Quote ="St pete"I'm bored at the games. I find myself watching idiots in the crowd or messing on my phone as im so bored. Hudds will put a score on us next week.'" I and plenty others agree going by the atmosphere tonight. We are an incredibly boring team to watch, this forum seriously needs renaming. www.threedrivesandakick.net

Quote ="St pete"I'm bored at the games. I find myself watching idiots in the crowd or messing on my phone as im so bored. Hudds will put a score on us next week.'" I and plenty others agree going by the atmosphere tonight. We are an incredibly boring team to watch, this forum seriously needs renaming. www.threedrivesandakick.net

I preferred us when we had no half backs.

This is what happens when teams sign below-average, reserve-grade standard Australians and expect them to be good just because they're Australian.

I agree with a lot of that mate.

It hasn't got anything to do with moving grounds though. I believe the entertainers tag was lost the day Sean Long moved on and we never replaced him. He, and Bobby Goulding before him gave us personality and character.

This might sound ridiculous but I believe that when you have an exciting half back, the team starts to mirror him in a way. Sean Long and Bobby Goulding had us ticking over like a dream. When they were injured and others stepped in, even with star players like Newlove, Lyon, Sculthorpe, Cunningham, Martyn etc we just looked a bit one dimensional. We still had enough quality to win games but it wasn't pretty.

We never replaced Longy. Eastmond was injured a fair bit and although people will disagree, I don't think he was great at guiding the team around the park. Lomax was proven to not be a natural scrum half. Gaskell never worked out either. We weren't interested in Matty Smith.

We bought Walsh in, and he looked good for a while when he was fit and we all know what happened after that. Was/is he the typical exciting, daft as brush, maverick style half back that we've got used to as Saints fans over the years? I don't think he is or was.

I wish we'd have coughed up for a Brough or a Kevin Brown...

The is more below average overseas to come in 2016.

I wasn't at the game on Friday as I'm on holiday but I take it we rolled out the 3 drives, drop off and an early kick tactics again?

For us to play that way with Sean Long on the coaching staff really does baffle me. He must be tearing his hair out. It's awful to watch and will simply not work for us.

For a start we don't have good enough kickers in our side to pin teams down in their half. Kicking on the 4th is pointless when the kick is going straight down the opposition's throats.

My biggest moan at the minute though is this obsession with the drop off. There was an example in the Catalans game when we were about 8 behind with 10 minutes left. It was the 4th tackle and we were 20 yards out. Our "move" of choice was to hit Greg Richards with a drop off back into the middle of the field. It's completely and utterly clueless. For KC to coach that is shocking, but surely Walsh and Burns need to take some responsibility and realise that a certain element of "off the cuff" has to be expected in those situations?

Our pack is good enough to win us a lot of games and put us where we are in the table, but we need to do more when it matters most. Losing games is one thing but losing them playing an absolutely terrible brand of rugby just leaves a really bad taste.

Perhaps KC has watched us win the GF last year with fairly basic tactics and has assumed he can repeat that. That's a very short-sighted approach and one that is now in danger of backfiring massively and has us looking over our shoulder at the teams in 4th and 5th.

Looking at our squad on paper at the start of the year I was convinced we were the team to beat. A big aggressive pack, 2 out and out half backs for the first time in years and exciting young 3/4s.

I really can't believe we've allowed it to get to this point.

Its baffling for me as well that Sean Long has not taken over our attacking structure, look what he did with Salford over his short period there. KC should be looking at our defence which is one big massive turnstile at the moment. For around 3 or 4 games now his post match comments have concerned the team playing dumb, so maybe its not all down to the game plan but very bad half back executions.

I can,t see how our game is going to improve with a one out pass flat attack, the opposition are just getting an easy ride on there defensive set, again the half backs and hooker have got to get players running in from deep with a bit of pace and momentum. Greenwood and LMS are looking far less effective these last couple of games, there is only Vea who can operate in this restrictive way.

With our half backs so much out of form and having no replacements, KC has got his hands tied and we are stuck until Wikin comes back in the side.

Sean Long being appointed defensive coach pretty much sums up KC's reign so far; baflling and wrong.

I have agreed with every comment on this thread. It's not often that you find a general consensus on these pages so that, for me anyway, says a hell of a lot.

If we can all see it then surely the coaches can see it? What worries me is that Cunningham took charge after Royce was sacked and we played the same tripe we are serving up now. I can't see anything changing over the next couple of weeks and we are facing the prospect of not winning a game in the super 8s if this carries on. Some tough fixtures to follow.

I don't understand what Saints fans have against a drop off. It's like saying we have an obsession with the second man play, or an obsession with the face ball. It's one of the main moves in rugby league, of course we use it often.

A drop off on 4th 20 metres out means you get a PTB that isn't horrendously slow (providing Richards does his job well). It also gives you split halves from the middle of the pitch, meaning two kicking options and less kick pressure. 8 behind and you either need a kick for a repeat set or a kick you can compete for, both of which you aren't likely to achieve if Burns is kicking across his body from the right hand corner with the defence flying up because we shifted it out to the right wing when it wasn't on.

Can't comment on either of the last two games. But purely in terms of the scores neither are good.

All coaches face such crises in their careers. I guess how Cunningham responds to this one really will have a large say in his career at the club.

That said, neither result really changes a great deal. We're still in a good position and with some good players to return.

The big issue for me is Walsh. I said three weeks ago that unless his teammates see some kind of improvement in his game they will feel less and less happy about carrying him. Sooner or later team morale will sink and from therein it's only a short step toward complete and utter implosion.

I can't tell if you actually mean this or if you're taking the mick.

You honestly think that a drop off to a prop on the 4th tackle when chasing the game was the RIGHT thing to do?? Wow. We should be aiming to score tries in that situation, not preparing ourselves in advance for a better opportunity at a repeat set!! The lack of ambition, creativity and urgency in what you're saying is absolutely shocking.

I haven't seen the game - but Saint #1 is right. Whether either you or I like Saints' current brand of football is irrelevant here - given our tactical style (one which doesn't involve a great deal of width) setting up for territory and pressuring for the mistake in their half is a FAR BETTER option than suddenly trying to play a brand of football we haven't all season, coughing up the ball close to our line because of it and losing the game entirely.

Sean Long (who did have excellent backs to work with and greater width, tactically) won many a big game from behind by not trying to force the pass with a handful of minutes to go - punting instead for territory. Far too many sides panic when there really is no need to. In ten minutes you can score four tries - so being down by eight is no reason to suddenly start throwing what in the NFL are referred to as "Hail Mary" passes.

Trust me if you'd have seen the game you'd know exactly where I, and everyone else bar you and Saint#1, are saying.

They were down to 12, we had perfect field possession, we needed points and were chasing the game and we simply chose to see out our set. It was awful.

20 off the line to get us back to the middle, after a spread play the play before? Yes. In terms of our chances of winning the match, being ready for a good attacking kick to try and score a try or force a repeat set does a lot more than aimlessly chucking the ball from one touchline to the other despite a spread play the play before. Even with 8 minutes to go, some times you just need to set up for the next play.

There's a time and a place for being patient, I agree with that bit.

But when you've tried and failed with those tactics already for 72 minutes and you have a numerical advantage, not chancing our arm and playing more expansively was an error; an error which ultimately cost us the game.

Aimlessly? Throwing the ball out wide, creating overlaps, missing players out, offloads etc this is what it means to play for a team like Saints, who were long famous for scoring last minute tries (Never write off the Saints etc) before the successes of post 96 never mind before it.

I'm sorry, I know for many other clubs, that strategy against 12 men is totally acceptable, but if that's what we've settled for as Saints fans then we've lost the very thing that set us apart from other teams...I don't mean winning trophies, i mean playing the game like the Brazilians play football.

I'm not losing hope yet...players like Lomax (when he comes back), Makinson, Swift, Percival, Richards, Thompson, Charnock, Roby, Greenwood, Savelio and co all know what it means to play for Saints.

I'm not given to over reaction, so I've given it the weekend . It's the tactics , simple. Apart from Vea (plenty of 2nd row cover), Lomax (Quinlan cover) and Tommy Mak -( really missing this lads finishing) we had a full squad avaliable and it was shocking.
It's all good KC coming out ever week saying the players arnt performing, but it's his bloody job to make them! Why arnt they?
KC starting to look horribly out of his depth and if things don't improve a Saints legend will destroy his own reputation

A drop off is a play that settles you and gets you back to the middle for the next play. If we're running a drop off on 4th, 20 out from the line, it's because we spread the ball the play before. It's very difficult to set up a triple second man play, immediately after a spread play the other way - plus we tend to run our spread plays from just outside the far post.

But I'm talking in terms of winning. In terms of whether it's good to watch? Not really. It looks like we've spent the entire year playing as we would in a Grand Final, where you kick early, play for territory and don't look to be expansive. We've scored some excellent, skillful individual tries, but not many from the top of my head which have been off the cuff team tries.

I think something to bear in mind here is the amount of young players (and new players) we've got at the minute. Being new to (consistently) playing first team, players aren't always gonna be confident enough at this level to throw passes they're capable of. That will (hopefully) come with time, but with Quinlan, Vea, Greenwood, Percival, Savelio, Richards, Thompson, Charnock, Savelio all new to consistently playing first team for Saints, which probably magnifies our current game plan in terms of lack of flair. Look at Walmsley for example - 16 offloads in 2013, 17 offloads in 2014, 46 offloads this year already. LMS in his first season with us offloaded 9 times all year. 23 the following year, 28 already this year.