Not enough craft, guile, focus, calm or raw power in the opposition's 20 cost us today.

wi*an have the upper hand over us because their one-on-one defence is top drawer and gives almost nothing away. Against that, a team needs to have 3 or 4 players with that special 'something' to best their opposite number or make a half-break and slip the ball out of the tackle to an player alert and astute enough to be on their shoulder. This Saints team just don't have that. Nor do we have anywhere near enough pace to make breaks from well away from the opposition line count.

Today, the pack evened itself out. The difference was that wi*an had a halfback with genuine rugby brain who could dictate play, and real pace in the backs to exploit any gaps to the max.

We need a halfback who can orchestrate play, a pacey, powerful centre and a winger with similar attributes, an impact player to give us something extra near the line (Manu) and a bustling prop who can boss the middle (because for all that Frank, Perry and LMS are *alright*, they're just solid pros)

But that's the point really isn't it? We want a coach who can kick us one step beyond. I believe Simmons would have done it last season but for the injury to Shenton and the resulting necessity of relying upon our most unreliable player ever, ie Meli, but he's now gone and so my concern is whether Brown can put the fire back into us or whether we are going to go even softer under him, given how Hudds are in those pressure scenarios.

Agreed.

I think the big difference is that in those pressure games, Hudds are generally significantly weaker on paper. Defeat isn't evidence of them bottling it or failing to deal with pressure, it's more likely a case of the better team winning.

Brown clearly has previous on getting a team to perform above their capabilities. That'll do for me.

Nice Monkey Metaphore!!!

We've had a week of knocking Saints, but then everything is relative. I think defensively we are pretty decent. We have a few soft bits around the edges, but the team are able to tighten these up even within a match.

We have knocked Saints, but I think everything is relative, most agree that we have players that can attack against lower league teams, through pure strength and professionalism on the back of good play by Roby. That's fair enough. I think the critisism of Saints is related more to our lack of penatration verses Wigan. It exposes deficiencies in the team that Roby and the pack cannot handle alone.

I agree with much that's been said about the "knockers" they have gone a bit overboard with the criticism of your team, mainly due I think, to the two defeats by Wigan. Fact, I think, the team is not as good as in pass seasons, but in saying that it would be hard to keep to that standard year after year, and when you look at the changes, players in, players out and the mix of the young ones it is a big ask to keep up to past standards. For me the team is in a faults position in the SL, you are better than that, but alot must be down to a lack of self belief (something the oz has tons of) and no matter what is said to the tv cameras, it's what's in your mind that counts. It shows on the field in the big games, you can't expect Roby, (who I don't like to say, but is, the best hooker in the world, bar none) and Paul Wellens, a good player coming to the twilight of his career, to hold the team together. others must take more responsibility for whats happening and, with ideas. In big games sometimes Saints seem lost, they have guts and heart, but the fear of getting it wrong is in the minds of some. Having said that I do think at times Hohaia looks like a lost sheep.. Good luck for the rest of the season, but not too much, after all I am a Pie!.