In an ideal world we would play to our potential every game but if one thing gives me hope it's what's happened the past 3 years.

During all of those GF winning years we have had some terrible performances and results but have come back and peaked at the right time.

I don't think we have been as poor as we have this year but we are slowly improving and have only lost once in eleven games now, despite our poor form I would guess that without the injuries we would have won a few more games and possibly be 3rd in the league.

If we manage to make the GF this year it will be all that sweeter, but even if we don't as disappointed as I would be it would be harsh to take anything away from a squad that has made 5 out the 6 last finals and won 4.

I don't dissagree with any of that.

But for me it highlights even more about the future, and what will happen next season without any changes, and even more so the season after that.

I know for us fans it is about the here and now and whether we have success to show at seasons end, but the club need to plan strategically for the future, at least I sincerely hope they are. A GF win this season like you say will be all the more sweeter, but it shouldn't mask what could potentially be a huge problem next year.

I would rather plan for more success than wait until the inevitable hits us and get desperate.

I hope I don't go Dizzy here but I agree with all of that, I just wonder why you are so concerned? what makes you worry about the next generation?

I'm not saying everything is perfect but GH has done quite well in retention and recruitment over the past 10 years, and in Pitt's, Ambler, Watkins, McShane, BJB, Bush etc I can see that he's not given up just yet.

I would guess that whilst those players look good the boots of McGuire, Burrow, Sinfield, Peacock, Senior will take some filling.

My honest opinion, and I will get shot down, and to be honest I can sort of understand the club, is that sentimality plays a big part in the decisions, as we see from the fans.

We have to remember that we went a long long long time without success, never mind sustained dominant success. For that most of this squad of players will go down in history, and rightly so.

But I do feel there is a desire not to lose that, out of sentimality to those, sort of a reward. I feel that rather than plan for succession, as I said earlier the inevitable will hit us, and then we will be forced to do it. But by that time we could be behind the game again, and paying a catch up.

I am very much in the camp of strengthening from a position of strength, rather than weakness. And that does not necessarily mean recruiting from outside. Although I have my fears as expressed many times previously about the back up coaching at this club with regards academy lads.

I am very much old school in that I feel if a player is good enough he is old enough. But in order to keep on to our current successful crop I have the opinion that too many potential stars have been lost or held back in order for the current crop to see through a longer career.

Anyone see Jason Demetriou on SL show.
He said Wakefield came unstuck trying to entertain and throw the ball about in the rainy conditions. "You can't just come and do five drives & a kick" quote.
Sorry Jason that's exactly what you did, most boring opposition we've seen all season at Headingley

Two things spoiled the game as a spectacle - the heavy rain and a referee prepared to use that as an excuse to slow the game down by allowing a ridiculous amount of time for both teams to clear the tackle area.

Prior to the rain arriving I thought Leeds were starting to string it together in attack and producing some decent stuff after a very sketchy start. It then became a game of ball control and field position rather than which side could open up the other with some slick handling.

I agree with that, just as the rain arrived Leeds had really started to get on top and Wakefield were struggling to match the pace we were playing at. If the rain had even held of another 10 minutes I think we'd have been a couple of scores up and looking at a comfortable win.

Leeds conceded a needless penalty (Ablett - flop) on 32 seconds, where Morrison scored off a missed forward pass by the officials. 0-6

Leeds then failed to clear up a short kick option on the last for another rather fortunate try. 0-12

Before it started raining Leeds had made no mistakes ball in hand (16 minutes) and the game was promising to be pretty open, fast and entertaining. Over the next eight minutes there were eight knock ons.

I think that the current issue is that the kids coming through the acadamy are not good enough to oust the existing players. Most of the players who have come through in recent years have come in positions with multiple matchday spots.

The pivots are harder to replace, and lets face it, there are not many players going to come through to oust one of them. Do you weaken the current team in case a promising youngster steps up?

Its a fine balancing act. I think that we're going ok, with promising players going on loan and learning from experience without it costing results. With a good chunk of experience under his belt I'm interested to see how next year pans out for BJB and McShane, in their 3rd season of first team

My post was not necessarily in dissagreement with that.

I am of the opinion that at 17 they have the potential to be good enougth. 3 years later with our current reserve set up, they are no further forward.

I am of the opinion that if they are good enough they are old enough. And I don't think holding a player back for 2 or 3 years does anything to aid their progress.

Look at our current successfull players that are so hard to dislodge. Most of them made their debuts at 16 or 17. We seem to have this block at the club now of holding players back at that age for some reason, and I don't think it is because they are not good enough.

At the time they made their debuts it was either because they were outstanding players and the equal of the current incumbents (Sinfield, McGuire) or due to injuries to incumbent players giving them an opportunity (Diskin, Burrow)

The current Leeds side contains some of the best players in their respective positions in SL. The young players emerging at 16/17 are going to have to be very special to get into the side ahead of the incumbents on merit, and to be honest I can't think of anyone in the last 5-6 years who was better than the incumbent in their position and has been held back by not being selected.

So they are either relying on players ahead of them getting injured to get a game (see Bush, Clarkson this season for example) or moving on elsewhere on loan or permanently to get some first team rugby.

Again, this is where I see the problem.

What do Bush and Clarkson have to offer that some of the under 18's don't?

There is nothing. Bush and Clarkson are no better now than they were at under 18 level. That is where I see the problem.

In your opinon they are no better!


Where Clarkson is concerned i'm of the opinion that he's improved from his under 18's days and has done well when called upon.
Bush normally plays FB and when chosen on the wing i think he's done ok.
Just a quick note IF they haven't improved from u18's days surely they'd of been cut?

Of the current squad only Sinfield made his debut as a 16 year old (almost 17) and Watkins and Jones-Buchanan as 17 year olds.

18 - Burrow, Ablett, McGuire, Bailey
19 - Diskin, McShane, Jones-Bishop, Pitts, Clarkson
20 - Bush, Manning
21 - Burgess
22 - Eastwood
23 - Senior, Worrall
24 - Delaney, Lauitiiti
25 - Kirke
26 - Donald, Webb
28 - Peacock, Leuluai
31 - Buderus

It's not easy to promote the youth into the 1st grade when you are at the high end of the sport, much easier to do so when you're out of contention in a rebuilding phase or absolutely forced by a glut of injuries.

They would have been, had they been no good, but again the point is misunderstood.

Your opinion is formed because they have made a couple of appearances now, so now it is to your attention. When they were under 18's it didn't matter to you.

My point was that they were good enough at under 18, indeed I voiced on here a couple of times a couple of years back, asking why Clarkson had not been given a run out in the first team.

My view now is that neither player is any better than they were at that stage. Only a couple of years older. I honestly feel in regards both players that neither will have a future here, because the next crop are equally as good, and space has to be made somewhere.

Hang on a minute don't assume how my opinion is formed.
I saw both at the u18 level and like i posted above i think they have improved whereas you think they were ready then!
You may be right re-Bush but i honestly think Clarkson could/should have a future with us and could another Abbo.

You also felt Manning was the answer only last season to our shortage of Eastwood not coming. Now he is struggling to make the bench at Featherstone, where according to Featherstone fans he will never be super league standard.

Ratu was slated at Halifax but still did well when given the opportunity at Leeds.
I like Manning and the fact that Fev fans don't rate him isn't of any concern to me mate alot of people thought Danny Allan shouldn't of been released but he's been let go again to join York.
That doesn't mean that Clarkson has got no future at Leeds how many times was Jjb written off?

they may not have got significantly better, but maybe the extra time has allowed them to physically develop to be able to cope with the very high demands of open age RL week in week out

Come on Gotcha your smarter than that, Would McGuire, Burrow, Sinfield etc all of been brought into the first team if the squad at that time had just won 3 titles on the trot?

Considering our success over the past 5 years I don't think we have been tight one bit in handing out debut's to young un's.

Had we not, and we lost them to other clubs, then we would have seriously been kicking ourselves now.

Those players were always going to be top stars regardless of which club they were at. And that is my point. You can not just hold back potential superstars who could potentially be better than what you have, without giving them a run at the expense of the current star, to see if they are up to it.

that is the problem with the rugby league structure in this country rather than any issue with ourselves.

The problem is clear, players like Mcguire, Burrow, JJB, Sinfield, Ablett and Bailey, not to mention Walker and Scruton, all benefited from getting game time at a young age, but they got their opportunities through injuries, retirements and replacing someone who in some cases wasnt great.

we arent in that position now, and for us as a club as well as the game itself, we need somewhere players can get tested against experienced pros when they cant dislodge the incumbent. We cant drop Donald for Chisholm just because he might be a star, and throwing him in for one match isnt really going to affect his development either way, with the potential for it being set back if he has a stinker,

the question is, how do we get these players ready for SL, so the jump between reserve and first team isnt so huge

Isn't that why Leeds have been following the loan route? The Academy is simply not a high enough standard to enable a very easy jump into the first team. And even worse, the longer a player stays there, the more likely they won't develop - really bad news around that 18-21 mark as that's exactly when they should be improving enormously if they have any chance of success.

It is a conundrum though - when you have a winning team its much harder to displace the incumbents. McGuire and Burrow were able to get games because the incumbents were the likes of Sheridan. The danger is being forced to replace the incumbents due to age and discovering you have nothing in reserve. IMO from next season GH and co will need to start making strategic decisions - and often very tough ones likely based on age in some cases as well.

What happened to the publicicty 5h1te of the tie up with Souths?

I thought we were supposed to be able to send youngsters over there each year? I would guess training with those players and playing in their academy comp would be much more beneficial than what they get at the moment.