I thought Gotcha mentioned that Hardaker was leaving anyway? now he's signed a 5 year deal?

Where does the promise bit come into it? Not sure where you are getting that from?

The club have, and as you and others seem to always say it also, always planned for the future. As far as I am aware it was the clubs plan for when Sinfield ends his days that Hardaker was the planned replacement, and both parties would work towards that. As far as I heard never such a thing as a promise or contractual obligation. I am not sure of the current squad there is anyone else that stands out as a future captain, based on the time frame fitting in with Sinfield ending. A captain that would grow with the next generation, which the club keep talking about.

Of course, you are then reliant on your plans working from the players development also. If that player puts a spanner in the works, then plans have to change.

I still go back and say though, that encouraging that development by housing men of that age group together, for me is a bad plan. Sinfield never did it that way, and I am not sure there are cases of success elsewhere either. For me team mates need space from one another, and in an environment away from your every day work.

Edit... Just noticed Printer that when I told you about Hardakers agreement I did use the word guarantee when talking about the future captaincy. My wrong choice of words, as I didn't use that word elsewhere.

Does anyone on here really see Zac as a potential captain? He is one tantrum away from a lengthy ban all the time.

He is a good player but he doesn't appear to have the attributes you would want from a leader and the primary representative of the club.

I am no Sinfield fan but no one could question his integrity and devotion to the job of being the captain/leader of this team - an absolute credit to the club, the team and most of all himself.

Does anyone really see the polar-opposite in Zac taking that mantle?

Just tell it as it is - the fact you just keeping digging suggests you are either still at school or resident in an appropriate institution

Since he has been at Leeds, I certainly wouldn't have put him down as captain material. But then again, as I said above, I can't also see it in anyone else in the team who will be there to grow with the next generation.

I also wouldn't have had James Graham down as a captain in his younger years either, but then again that one worked out well. There is quite a lot of instances throughout sport of people you wouldn't naturally see as captain material, appointed it, and it's not only been good for the team but more importantly the individual concerned. Possibly that was also the clubs thinking.

It's an interesting debate regarding Sinfield's successor as captain. Nobody really stands out from the current group, Ablett perhaps? Stevie Ward seems to have all the atrributes, I just hope he can stay fit and keep improving.

Ablett for a couple of years and then Ward would seem logical.

Ablett sets a great example but is too quiet for the role IMO. Ward needs to cement a place and perform more consistently. I agree, it's difficult.

Graham has always lead by example - no one could ever question his desire, ability and quality on the field - a leader by example

Graham has always continued to add different dimensions to his game, he still is, and talking and encouraging his team mates on a regular basis has become one of them. I watched the Bulldogs game this morning and you could see he was marshalling his troops at every break down .I think he has become the perfect captain material, and hopefully he is made England captain very soon.

[size=150If[/size he did I would wouldn't I.......................

Arrested for assault in his early days, and done for biting someone's ear in a game in another. Tantrums at refs when things did not go his way.

Sorry, but explain the difference to what we are talking about here now with Hardaker?

I agree, Graham is an extremely good captain, but as I said previously sometimes captaincy is what changes someone, and you might not have seen it in them before, especially considering specific indiscretions.

Yorkshire Post have confirmed Zak & Minchella both being questioned over the incident mentioned. Expected to be dropped from the squad tonight.

If Hardaker was even to be considered at this point in time it has to be because we have no outstanding candidate to take on the role and if you look around the current squad that is indeed the case.

I think Gotcha has a valid point about the Captaincy job being the making of the man though.Look at the likes of Rooney in football, who would have ever thought he would end up being England skipper a few years back?

And Sinfield is also unlikely to retire for 2/3 years yet at least so hopefully, if he is still with the club, you would hope Zak has managed to shaken off his 'brain fart' tendencies by then. Time will tell

If (and it's a big if) more comes of this I'd be tempted to show both the door.

This isn't (on the face of it) Bailey and Walker, where there was another aggressor in the incident which then escalated. Going stomping around shared accommodation at 3am trying to get into rooms then getting involved in a fight is idiotic behaviour, and certainly in Hardaker's case it's not the first example even in his short time at Leeds.

As good a player as he is, sometimes you need to set down a marker to stop the rest of your employees taking liberties. There are a whole new group of young players coming through at Leeds who need to be shown what it means to play for the club and what happens if you don't take it seriously.

If the player(s) ends up somewhere else and comes back to bite you, fair enough. There are sometimes more important things to consider when you're running a business.

From a captaincy perspective, how much does it actually matter in rugby league or any sport for that matter? You'll often see senior pros being verbal and demonstrative with team-mates even if they're not wearing the metaphorical armband. If Sinfield retired tomorrow, the logical choice would be McGuire in terms of experience and standing within the group. You've then got the likes of JJB, Ablett, Hall etc who have been around the group and will undoubtedly have a certain level of respect within the club.

Agree. Although in such cases the odds of getting bitten tend to lengthen with every charge added to the rap sheet.

Its about what they do on the field are you seriously suggesting Zac's contribution compares to what Graham gives and has given?

His indiscrections are born out of a desire to win not out of some warped view on what is acceptable behaviour

Always thought Hall would make a good captain, bright well respected lad.

No, I am suggesting that your view on Graham as a captain is based on the recent past and now, and one I agree with. But you are ignoring his earlier years, like for like with Hardaker. If you compare at the same ages, then a different view would be formed.

He is bright and well respected, but comes across as a bit shy, and not exactly a rugby organiser.

What Andy said about captaincy not mattering too much if there are various leaders on the field is sort of true, but I think RL is somewhere between football (where captaincy doesn't matter at all) and cricket (where it's key) in that a captain like Sinfield is also an on-field coach. Whether he has the armband or not, we need someone who can do that and it's not Hall. Also an important aspect of captaincy is how you deal with referees and manage that relationship - as we've seen from Hanley to Farrell to Sinfield. Not sure Zak would be the best choice for that no matter what he has or hasn't done this time round...

I think what makes the captaincy we've had at Leeds different is that at other clubs the captain just feels like the guy whose leading the team for that 80 mins and in training. Sinfield really has a role of being captain of the whole club and seems like a 24/7 gig. I also agree with Andy above using the likeness of a cricket captain compared to a football captain, Sinfield really feels more like the former of the two and one that has a significant bearing on how the team play.

I think your last sentence there is exactly how the club saw it, and the intention was to continue. It was more a case of a pivot, and controlling the way we play, and growing with the next generation. A long term stable period.

As I said previously, outside influences putting a spoke on that, would obviously change things.

Btw, having got lost in all the drama is that Golding is probably going to play tonight. Obviously not in the circumstances we want but I'm really looking forward to seeing how he goes and its a real chance to start making a name for himself.

If what we're all skirting around turns out to be true not only does young Golding have a fantastic opportunity tonight but, perhaps, for the rest of the season.

Now I'm gonna try something that might be difficult for some people on here, lets be logical and play detective for a moment.

YEP article this afternoon says 'A 22-year-old man confronted ONE of the men and was assaulted, suffering black eyes and bruising to his ears and neck.'

Now the ONE would suggest to me that it was only one of the men that attacked the guy. With that in mind, think back to the original article in which the male with a striking resemblance to Minchella, was the only one to have a close up image posted. With logical thinking in mind people, who does that suggest assaulted the guy? IMO that would be the male with a striking resemblance Minchella.

Obviously this may not be what has actually happened, but like I said IMO this is what everything seems to point to at the moment, and may also explain why Hardaker remained in the 19 and Minchella was completely dropped from the U19s.