Don't try it on with feeble insults, you're doing it to the wrong person. You decided all on your own that you were going to define a stand off, but you couldn't even manage that, all you could do was type a players name.

I don't know why you bother anymore to be honest, you've dug a huge hole for yourself over Kevin Sinfield and you are just trying to bully your way out of it like you do when you lose every argument.

Comparing an impressionist with a leader in the pop art movement is like comparing a banana and a naan bread. So can you define why they are considered great artists (and in an exam you wouldn't be able to just put - "it's obvious" - zero mark there for Sal) ? Or were they the first two names that came into your head when you were thinking up this bat$h!t analogy?


Please feel free to cut and paste from Wikipedia, my wife can score it, she studied the history of art at the OU (she, and everyone else were obviously wasting their time if it's obvious).

.... similarly, by Sal's method, there's never actually been an international class prop forward 'cos none of them had Lockyer's qualities.

I'd go further - if "International class" requires you to be as good a Lockyer (record holder for: International caps, Australian tries, State of Origin appearances, NRL/ARL apperances, Tries scorer for Australia) then there has probably only ever been a handful of international class players



(That I've seen play I'd have to limit the list to say Meninga, Lockyer, Johns, Hanley and Richie Spedding)

Kevin Sinfield really isn't a 6.

No way can Sinfield by attributed for the loss but his kicking was poor tonight and not even the most dedicated of Sinfield fans can argue against that.

Agree wasn't just sinfield who made us lose that game. But the kicking game wasn't great from either of our half backs. There were lots of the England team that didn't Play well but that's sport. Not sinfields best game but by the same token wasn't his fault alone that England lost, as said there were a fair few poor performances

At the end of the day a good kick from deep gains you an extra 5-15 metres when you are defending and tonight that was the only problem with Sinfield, the knock on in the 2nd half was nothing and no one was composed with ball in hand in when in the Aussie 20m zone, Sinfield was like so many tonight, average.

I'd probably go with Graham being our better man tonight.

Australia didn't allow us to play......Enuf Said

You can't play the Aussies on the back foot and that's what happened tonight not enough decent ball and no momentum.

Sinfield didn't kick well but Australia didn't let him. Sinfield had 2-3 defenders up to him everytime he kicked, in comparison Lockyer and Thurston had acres of space, with the defence on the back foot, and could pick there place easily.

Spot on this. Sinny not up to his usual impeccable standards tonight, but virtually the whole team looked off the pace they set earlier in the comp.....or maybe the Aussies just stepped up a gear or two.

I think they showed last night how far ahead of us they are in quality terms - as with the Packers it is great to see how the best play the game. They do the simple basic stuff so well the second man attacking plays are so precise it is a joy to watch - we looked like a cat in the headlights every time they put that play on.

The Aussies were simply too quick too strong and too good - they made players like Tomkins look distinctly average and the less said about Briscoe the better. Hopefully this will put an end to the Chase experiment he was atrocious. Bring on Lomax and Gaskill stick with them and they will deliver long term.

On the England front Sinfield played as well as he was allowed he didn't kick well but that was to be expected this isn't SL.

I agree with all of the above.

I'd also start to look at bringning in younger replacements for Morley who has looked a shadow of his fomer self this tournament and perhaps even Peacock.

Sal /G agree completely once they went through the gears we had no answers.
G spot on RE-JP and Moz but i do fear they'll both be "available" until they are 50 and doubt the coach has the nadgers to drop either.
I do think with Reed ,Hall ,Roby and at time Tomkins we have some real international potential just not enough yet.

thought Sinny went ok last night didn't have the best of kicking games but as has been said he was always under pressure from their defence. Note the difference when the aussie player kicked he nearly always had at least two players blocking the england defence giving them that vital few seconds of time to pick the spot. On the attacking front we were one dimensional and had no second phase and the playmakers did not have the runners coming at speed or angles the aussies ran.

Perhaps a game too far.

We were beaten up front in the forwards with only Graham and JJB getting anywhere near their normal form. The pack provided little effective go forward enabling the convicts to close down Sinfield when kicking which meant he was having to kick in poor areas and under pressure.

When on attack Sinfield was at 7 putting the ball into the scrum and it was Chase that produced nothing when in the SO position while it was Sinfield's pass that created our try. I couldn't understand why the coach didn`t alter this and get Sinfield back to 6 when on attack and also bring on Widdop at fullback and move Tomkins up to 7.

The whole team looked tired and lacked energy and they exposed our weak left wing defence.

I thought JJB tried his best and did not look out of place at this level. He was blamed on Sky for his pass that Briscoe dropped when in fact JJB clearly indicated with his hand behind his back his intention to pass that way. Brisco was asleep for most of the game and it was no coincidence that he was also not aware/ready for Hall's pass either.

Well written Sal. At last we find ourselves in some agreement on this thread.

My only reservation is over Lomax and Gaskell. They definitely have tons of exciting potential and will be helped by having the benefit of growing together as a club pairing. I hope they can step up in a way that no GB/England half-back partnership has for so long, but this remains to be seen.
This will not be entirely in their own hands though. Unless and until we get a pack that can compete consistently with the Aussies, the ability of the halves to shine at the top level will always be in question.

I fear we'll never compete consistently with the Aussies when our top players play 10-15 games a season more albeit in an all-round less competitive competition.
It's a double whammy, less time to prepare in the off season when all the strength & conditioning work is done & fewer games that are truly hard & challenging.
But that will never change with a 27 game regular season plus cup games & internationals.

Gaskill has sublime skills he glides around the pitch - for me he is the most exciting half back to emerge in many years - will he fulfil his potential - let's hope so.

Don't forget the top Aussies play 3 SOO games and the Anzac tests - do our players really play 10 games a year more than the Aussies?

Sky have certain favourites who are beyond criticism - Tomkins is one and Briscoe is another O'Loughlin is another. Briscoe just wasn't at the races his awareness was none existent - harsh to say it but I am not sure he had the heart for it last night. The fact Simon Mannering was able to give him 10 metres start and easily catch him suggests he needs to work on his basic speed.

Think I refered to this on another thread, in fairness to Sky it's not just them building up Tomkins. However I have never understood the hype reguarding Briscoe, especially when I get to see Ryan Hall play week in week out. Don't get me wrong Briscoe is a good winger, but you'd think he's Martin Offiah the way certain members of the Sky team talk about him.

Admittedly I don't see him play week in week out....but I must agree I have not seen anything that impresses. He apparently has not got scintillating exceptional pace nor has he got Hall-like finishing qualities....BJB also got the better of him in a tight situation with a fabulous finish earlier in the season.

Saints fan in 'Tomkins is rubbish - let's bring in Gaskill and Lomax' shocker!