For the record I don't dislike Bailey, I don't really think he's dirty (although a little niggly at times) and I certainly aren't racist.

I simply don't rate Bailey as higly as others seem to. I could name 20 props plying their trade in Superleague who I would have in my team before I got to Ryan Bailey.

I'm glad you haven't let a minority dissuade you from attending Headingley.

The Vigo incident was well documented at the time. It followed a fantastic Regal Trophy tie between Leeds and Wigan at Headingley (22-25) where Vigo (a relatively unknown South African born winger, IIRC) embarrassed the great John Atkinson in to retirement. Vigo had responded to some unsavoury chanting from the South Stand by beating his chest (in mock King Kong style) in celebration of his hat-trick and winning try.

On his next visit there was more abuse and a plenty of bananas heading his way. The local fruit and veg shops must have done a roaring trade.

As a footnote, Atkinson (after a change of shift patterns) boosted Leeds that same Christmas by coming out of retirement and helping Leeds retain the Challenge Cup.

fair point. however you see him when we play you or on sky. its the same when we don't rate player A at saints or player B at wigan, we see him maybe half a dozen times a season.
when you watch a player week in week out you get to see the whole picture rather than a quarter of it

Which 20? I'm not looking for an argument just wondered who you would have before Bailey.

Just remember that Bailey is our 3rd/4th prop in this age of the salary cap, please name me 20 3/4 props from SL you would have before Bailey.

That 2nd line is the clincher TS they think if they reel off the likes of Morley,Graham and Peacock etc they've proved a point.

In all honesty they have proved a point.

Tony Soprano's point is also absolutely spot on.

The difference is that opposition fans fail to realize the pecking order of props and the category he will be in. But some people are talking Bailey up so much on here that they come across as though he is first choice. And on that respect Zucchini head is proving a point by the confusion.

What constitutes first choice?

He's been a mainstay of the pack for the last 8 years. Thats pretty much first choice for me, although he's not often a starter, doesn't make him not first choice

He is only talked up when he's deserved it though imo.
Sometimes it can be OTT i agree but he's stood up well this year and for a 3rd/4th choice prop he's done the buisness in strugling team which i personally think deserves the praise he's received.
I honestly don't know how you can prove a point by confusion


He's assuming he's a 1st choice prop so straight away he's very wrong and then the comparison is also very wrong which =WRONG,WRONG,WRONG.
I can't see how that proves point tbh mate.

tackler? he may have "made" 21 tackles but i doubt many of them were one on one, the kid is struggling as a top line player he hides when it's time to take the ball in (hence 4 drives) even if bluey did see him as more of a tackler i'd still want at least 10-15 drives a game from him, especially when our wingers are carrying the ball more than him. he's been ok and yes he has gf winners rings but all good things come to an end and his time as a leeds player should be at an end.

I see yer point bud but there is still a "pecking order" and imo although he is 1st choice 17 he's still behind Kylie and Peacock in terms of starting 1st choice if that makes any sense.

Like Tony Soprano posts, he is 3rd in the pecking order of the props. Peacock and Kylie are first in the pecking order, that doesn't change unless one is injured.

If he was a our front line first choice prop, i.e. Peacock then we would seriously have problems and the level of comparison that the hull poster was looking at would then become relevant.

Come on Leicster, your much brighter than that

First team and first choice are two very different things, If he was first choice at the 3 times in a row champions why has he not played for GB.

spot on, just o/t for a moment, my mate's father was a touch judge in the "good old days" and he told me a tale about the threepenny stand and how they slaughtered henderson gill one afternoon when wigan were going for the title, he said as a touch judge you always got stick off them but because it was hendeson and he was black he got some real abuse. apparently he just took it and was winding them up even more much to his amusment and he didn't get one bit of slaver that afternoon

Exactly so that should mean you'd think that anyone could name {14(no of teams in SL) x 2(no of props ranked 1 & 2 at each club) =} 28 props ranked higher than Bailey.
We could then argue if we agree with that or not.

I think in the days of a 17 rather than a 13 the concept of a first choice is a bit dated. for me though Peacock is first choice, and bailey, Leuluai and Burgess offer different options, but are roughly the same level of player.

The fact that Leuluai starts the game is no reflection of his place in the choices, more that his style of game is suited to the start of the game better than the others

Your argument would then also apply to Matt Diskin.

Not a bad point but there are a lot less opportunity's at hooker and if it wasn't for his injury maybe Diskin would have played more times for England/GB.

I'd have said the same with you and that reply



Bailey is a regular at Leeds, but he's never going to get a look in behind Morley, peacock, Graham, Carvell Sam Burgess etc for England/GB.

He's not of that class.

Bailey is good at what he does which is good enough for Leeds as part of a squad. To take that to Top International level, you need to rely on more than just one main facet to your game.

By your argument, if Kylie were english would he have pulled on more GB/England shirts than Bailey?

I think he would have a better chance than Bailey.

Maybe the GB think was not a good point (I just threw it in to pad my post out a bit), but Bailey is not first choice but definitely is first team (and would be in most SL teams), I think we have agreed on that?

I agree. I think the only first choice prop at leeds is Peacock, as he has the full package, the others together make up the full package too

Fielden (on current form at least)
Coley
Palea'aesina
Morley
Carvell
Graham
Crabtree
O'Meley
Moa
Dowes
Tronc
Lynch
Scruton
Lovegrove
Peacock
Leuluai
Sargent
Scarsbrook
Guisset
O'Hara (I havn't seen that much of him tbh but I've been impressed whenever I have)

All are better than Bailey imho.

the fact you have moa in there is a joke to start with, bailey owned fielden the other week and coley couldnt catch a cold let alone a ball 6 months ago. where was lovegrove when bailey was ripping kr apart on his own at there place last season. you say you haven't seen much of ohara but you think he's better than bailey? you really don't know what you are talking about do you?

just to add feka might be good for 20 mins a match but bailey is one of the leanest and most fit props in the league

thinking about it a little more bailey is 3rd or 4th choice prop at Leeds. If you through beastwood into it who proped all last seasons for the doggies in the nrl bailey would be 4th or 5th down the order at Leeds. most of the props you name a are marque props at their clubs! find me a 3/4/5th string prop as bailey at any club.

One off games don't, in any way, shape or form, reflect that one player is better than another, and anyone with half a brain can see that Fielden is streets ahead of Bailey on current form, but you are right Bailey really bitched Fielden in that comfortable Wigan victory. Last season Coley wouldn't have featured in that list but he's like a new player under McGuire this year. I'll admit that O'Hara was scraping the barrel a bit because I possibly exaggerated a little when I said 20

. However, by you saying selecting Moa is a joke you are doing exactly the same thing as I did because I bet you know very little about him. Also bear in mind that I said, "players I would have in my team ahead of Bailey." This does not neccessarily mean better players. At 23, Moa has the potential to be a far better player than Bailey imo.

read the other bit I added on reflection. as a squad prop not a marque prop bailey is as good as anyone in the game. just on the moa coley fielden thing, I have seen bailey take it to many teams and bash em about over the years. Moa and coley have done nothing in the game, fielden over the past 3 4 years has been nothing short of a joke whilst bailey has been a key cog in a champion team. basically bailey is a player that other teams fans just come on here and type crap.

I do not agree with lovegrove, moa, dowes, lms, gusset of big lad from Wigan(didn't want to spell it wrong!)