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| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"The only ones bleating are negative one eyed critics like you and Gotcha who post more comments when we lose than when we win. How many times have you had to eat humble pie regarding your opinion of our coach? Does it perhaps equal the number of Championships and Cups he has won?
With regard to Galloway. We were 2nd in the table the day he played his last game for us and we finished in 2nd place. So quite how did we improve without him? Do you think we would have done worse this season had he been fit to play?
But I forgot you don't like facts when they get in the way of your prejudice do you?'"
The Coach point has plenty of credability i dont deny it but id rather question him & his methods during the regular season than just be a sea lion & clap any old dung we're served.
That really does come across as "boo hoo"
Did our performances improve without him? Yes i think they did we looked stronger especially defensively & if i remember rightly we WON a GF without him no?
Also this prejudice spiel is ridiculous onto this year he wouldn't have made my 17 with everyone fit anyway.
Also while we're at it id have kept Mulhern rather than signed him in the first place.
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| Quote ="Gotcha"The Galloway excuse just Highlights a lack of knowledge rather than defends a position. The failure to grasp the fact that Oledzki was the replacement chosen by the club for Galloway, they have replaced him. Without the injuries, Oledzki would have been at Fev all year. Can anyone really say that Mullally and Singleton have offered more than Oledzki this year? Never mind Galloway himself.'"
Galloway's forced retirement through serious injury from our squad this season is a fact and one that you choose to ignore because it doesn't fit your dodgy opinions.
I do not believe your so called fact that Oledzki was chosen to replace Galloway. I think the facts show that he has not been replaced at all.
Oledzki is not a new recruit and had played in the first team last year before Galloway was injured and he has retained his number 28 shirt for this season. Since Galloway's retirement his number 8 shirt has gone to Cuthbertson and his number 10 shirt has been taken by Singleton and Mullally has moved from number 20 to number 16. None of this supports your opinion.
But let us look further. At the start of the season it was Ormandroyd that was selected ahead of Oledzki who has been used with limited minutes from the bench. Indeed his first SL start was our last match against Castleford and this despite starting earlier 5 matches with only 3 props and in one case starting with only 2 props. Both JJB and Delaney have started at prop ahead of Oledzki and Ferres has been used as a change prop while Oledzki.
By the way I am a big fan of Oledzki who I think has a big future and I think our coach has correctly not been tempted to overplay him despite his serious shortage of big props.
So to pretend we have been not been one big prop light in the squad all season is to distort the facts. And for you to suggest that Oledzki, despite his promise and who is still leaning his trade, is able to match the gaping hole left by Galloway whose rock solid middle defence has been so missed this year is a nonsense.
Mullally has been a disappointment this year but you insult Singleton by saying he hasn't offered more than Oledzki.
I disagree with your views on Keinhorst who is an intelligent centre and would be a regular in most SL sides and certainly a better centre than Bateman at Wigan. He scored a good try for Widnes against St Helens on Saturday and was strong in defence.
Your rugby knowledge might improve if you relied more on facts and got a better view on match days....perhaps the TV would be better for your eyesight.
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| I would have keinhorst in too JC.
I would have Sutcliffe, when fit, in the second row. he's not good enough for the backs. he has size and good tackling technique.
we should have replaced galloway to supplement oledzeki.the fact is all our second rows are past there best. you can carry one or two but not all of them which is what we are doing now.
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| Quote ="RHINO-MARK"The Coach point has plenty of credability i dont deny it but id rather question him & his methods during the regular season than just be a sea lion & clap any old dung we're served.
That really does come across as "boo hoo"
Did our performances improve without him? Yes i think they did we looked stronger especially defensively & if i remember rightly we WON a GF without him no?
Also this prejudice spiel is ridiculous onto this year he wouldn't have made my 17 with everyone fit anyway.
Also while we're at it id have kept Mulhern rather than signed him in the first place.'"
Are you suggesting we would not have won the GF had our first choice starting prop Galloway had been able to play?.
Galloway did the hard stuff in the middle of our defence and made very few errors. His carries always took in several defenders and we miss his experience and size.
Did you state at the time your opinion that Mulhern should have been given a starting spot instead of signing Galloway or is this due to the progress he has recently made?
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| JC - could you Keinhorst getting a game at Wigan/Saints/Hull/Warrington - not a chance he is a very average SL player with a limited skill and a distinct lack of pace. Bateman at centre is on a different plant to Keinhorst to suggest otherwise defies any kind of logic and cannot be supported by the physical evidence.
The fact that fans think Keinhorst should be anywhere near a side like Leeds suggests expectations have plummeted. Leeds have indicated he has no long term future at the club as a big supporter of the coach surely that indicates to you he simply isn't good enough at this level.
I think you are wrong on the Galloway/Oledski thing - I think his elevation was chosen as an inexpensive replacement option when Galloway retired - that is the only logical assumption that can be made given the lack of activity in the transfer market.
On Peteru there isn't enough evidence to support whether he is another Kylie or a Ben Cross/Ormondroyd so I would suggest he should excluded from any argument regarding injuries. The fact the coach doesn't want to use Ormondroyd despite the injury/suspension issues should be considered when in the argument the use of Delanney/JJB as props is being spouted.
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| keinhorst is a squad player. he's being used as such. although id prefer newman to get a run i cant see it happening.obviously if have moon at 4 but I've ignored him ad despite his failings at 6 he won't be moved
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| I am sorry I know it doesn't help, but I can't do anything but PMSL at Juan.
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| Watkins being ruled out for the season is a massive loss but most teams would be glad to have a replacement of Keinhorst quality. As 3rd or 4th choice centre he would make most SL squads imo.
Galloway should have been replaced, but only if a player of suitable quality was available. Having so many players out long term in the same position would stretch any squad.
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| McDermott himself has said that Galloway was a big loss as he did the type of work that allowed the likes of Garbutt and Cuthbertson to do what they do best.
Whilst many bemoaned the what Galloway gave to the team he clearly was used for a specific role that helped others perform to their ability.
He should have been replaced for sure.
On the Mulhern debate I always rated him probably more so than Singleton.
I also feel that Keinhorst as a squad member is/was a valuable asset and probably better than Handley and Sutcliffe in that position.
That is not to say he should be a regular LC but nevertheless is good enough to be in the squad even at Leeds.
Saying that I would sooner have Lilley at SO than Moon which would no doubt upset some on here.
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| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"Are you suggesting we would not have won the GF had our first choice starting prop Galloway had been able to play?.
Galloway did the hard stuff in the middle of our defence and made very few errors. His carries always took in several defenders and we miss his experience and size.
Did you state at the time your opinion that Mulhern should have been given a starting spot instead of signing Galloway or is this due to the progress he has recently made?'"
Im suggesting we won the GF WITHOUT him & got through tough play off games to get there proving his "loss" is anything major.
Also re-Mulhern i was vocal in backing him just like i do most of our jnrs & his progression has shown maybe we should have gambled on him rather than an expensive 30+ import.
Its all well & good adding experience etc but lets give the younger lads a go first.
Also imo Oledzki would be in my 17 before Galloway.
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| Quote ="RHINO-MARK"Im suggesting we won the GF WITHOUT him & got through tough play off games to get there proving his "loss" is anything major.
Also re-Mulhern i was vocal in backing him just like i do most of our jnrs & his progression has shown maybe we should have gambled on him rather than an expensive 30+ import.
Its all well & good adding experience etc but lets give the younger lads a go first.
Also imo Oledzki would be in my 17 before Galloway.'"
Mulhearn, mcshane, Mincello hardaker, the four involved in the student assault, all no longer at the club. just leave that here.
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| never realised the first 2 were involved. thought mcshane had gone by then?
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| By a good few years I thought.
Maybe he came back for the fight?
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| Quote ="rollin thunder"Mulhearn, mcshane, Mincello hardaker, the four involved in the student assault, all no longer at the club. just leave that here.'"
It was Minicelo & Cretin the other 2 were nowhere near.
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| Quote ="RHINO-MARK"It was Minicelo & Cretin the other 2 were nowhere near.'"
4 players where involved, pretty sure.
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| Quote ="rollin thunder"4 players where involved, pretty sure.'"
found this, yes apologies to Mcshane but mulhearn was involved and i guess it had a part in him not being retained.
extract from national and local news.
Leeds, who will sack Hardaker if he lands in trouble again, have given Minchella a written warning and fined him half a month's salary. Three other players - Rob Mulhern, Josh Walters and Ash Handley - have been fined and given a warning. They were involved in the night out but not the assault.
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"JC - could you Keinhorst getting a game at Wigan/Saints/Hull/Warrington - not a chance he is a very average SL player with a limited skill and a distinct lack of pace. Bateman at centre is on a different plant to Keinhorst to suggest otherwise defies any kind of logic and cannot be supported by the physical evidence.
The fact that fans think Keinhorst should be anywhere near a side like Leeds suggests expectations have plummeted. Leeds have indicated he has no long term future at the club as a big supporter of the coach surely that indicates to you he simply isn't good enough at this level.
I think you are wrong on the Galloway/Oledski thing - I think his elevation was chosen as an inexpensive replacement option when Galloway retired - that is the only logical assumption that can be made given the lack of activity in the transfer market.
On Peteru there isn't enough evidence to support whether he is another Kylie or a Ben Cross/Ormondroyd so I would suggest he should excluded from any argument regarding injuries. The fact the coach doesn't want to use Ormondroyd despite the injury/suspension issues should be considered when in the argument the use of Delanney/JJB as props is being spouted.'"
Bateman is a very strong and competitive 2nd rower but as he never knows when to pass I can only guess he lacks the handling skills or intelligence of a true centre.
The game has lost these skills due to teams relying on physicality and brute force at centre and selecting the likes of Bateman in the backs. Are you suggesting Bateman is quicker the Keinhorst?
I am not suggesting Jimmy is the best centre around but IMO he is certainly better than Sutcliffe or Handley , despite his recent purple patch. His problem at Leeds is that we have had two quality players ahead of him in Watkins and Moon so Keinhorst has had limited runs at centre and his willingness to play in the second row says much for his attitude and toughness. In my view he has been an excellent squad member and is certainly above average as a centre especially as there are so few about. He reads a game well and selects intelligent running lines (often better than Watkins) and scores crucial tries.
When Galloway was forced to retire it was Ormandroyd who was first elevated (not Oledzki) but he failed to cut it at SL level. Now I can understand the management wishing to give two up and coming young props some game time but Garbutt picked up his long term injury in the first match and with Ormandroyd not yet making the grade we should have recruited at that stage. of the season I feel sure Mac will have wanted to recruit but as we all know GH holds the purse strings.
The coach knows his best chances of getting wins is to get his proven best and most experience players on the field. He has handled Oledzki very well so far and has gradually built up his minutes and finally gave him his first SL start last Saturday when he was our best forward IMO.
So not only are you trying to pretend that the loss of Galloway is not significant, in a sort of Gotcha way of avoiding facts that get in the way of your argument, but you go one better and want to totally exclude Peteru from our injury crisis on the grounds he has not proven himself to you (because he has been injured Sal!) But as he has only played 3 out of 14 games and is now going to be out for another 10/12 games I can see why you are so keep to not include him or Galloway from you argument that we don't really have an injury crisis at all.
Just for the record have you also dismissed the long term injury to Sutcliffe too (missed 10), as he is not better than Handley? At least you would be consistent.
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| Quote ="RHINO-MARK"Im suggesting we won the GF WITHOUT him & got through tough play off games to get there proving his "loss" is anything major.
Also re-Mulhern i was vocal in backing him just like i do most of our jnrs & his progression has shown maybe we should have gambled on him rather than an expensive 30+ import.
Its all well & good adding experience etc but lets give the younger lads a go first.
Also imo Oledzki would be in my 17 before Galloway.'"
You did not answer my question so I take it you agree we would also have won the GF had been in the side.
Your logic is questionable. We also won the GF last year without Sinfield so does that prove his loss is anything major too?
Can you provide a link to prove your vocal support for Mulhern in preference to signing a State of Origin player?
Had Galloway not been injured he would have always been a starter. Oledzki would have taken Mullally's spot as he still is not ready for regular starts and big minutes.
I am all in favour of giving young talent a go (I spent many years coaching juniors) but in truth very few of the U/19 stars make it all the way in the man's game.
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| Quote ="RHINO-MARK"It was Minicelo & Cretin the other 2 were nowhere near.'"
Is this a fact? or just an opinion?
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| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"Is this a fact? or just an opinion?'"
the same opinion/fact as yours that the coach wanted to replace galloway and Hetherington said no?
it's a forum. all about opinions. mark and myself definitely talked about keeping mulhearn at the time. some get through the net though. that's life.
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| Season over if we lose to catalan
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| It certainly is a must win game
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| Quote ="Sir Kevin Sinfield"It certainly is a must win game'"
who for ? your beloved catalan dragons
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| McDermott press conference didn’t have too much reading into it. Ward will captain the team but yet might not play due to injury. Doesn’t expect to be giving any debuts out but expects players to be playing battered and bruised. Confirms Golding will play.
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| playing battered and bruised players seems a bit silly to me. recipe for more injuries
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