What were they?

But they arent all at the same point, they arent all starting from an equal position. To expect an expansion club to be in the same position as a club like Wakefield before we admit them to SL will simply mean we never expand.

Id question both, but im not going to start throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The growth which has come in London and Wales since the game was introduced there embarrasses some of the heartland areas. Yes things can and should be done better but thats no reason to just give up.

I think they are all judged by the same criteria rhinoms. Some will be better at certain categories than others.

We cannot escape the fact that the TV revenue is crucial and Wales and London probably play an important part in that.

Yes that gives them a slight advantage over Wakefield, for example, but Wakefield have their own advantages. Wakefield have the advantage of being based slap in the middle of the games heartlands and having a much easier access to junior talent. That Wakefield have so long ignored this for so long (until recently) and filled their team with Kolpak Stiffs is their own fault. Not wishing to pick on Wakefield, just using them as an example.

Some teams have bigger advantages than others in this process. That's just a fact of life.

We have an unfair advantage over most clubs because of the corporate support we can expect to receive by being based in a large commercial city like Leeds so we can all be judged on this equal utopia you crave I am afraid.

The Broncos went into administration and the SL clubs voted to save them and they did'nt suffer a points penalty either.
The Crusaders farce is straight forward we told by the RFL and the original oweners everything was fine and dandy and they'd be a success in south Wales when many others doubted it and look what happened!
I'm not anti-expansion fellas although it does'nt sound like it i just want EVERY club to be treated and Judged the same way and whilst there seems to be a "certainty" about who goes it's not a level playing field imo.

Smokey/G1 Some great and valid points and i agree with most of it.
Smokey my point is that no matter how long the clubs have been around the franchise system is new and therefore i think we should be judging from it's introduction.

If only the team that had won the Championship grand final last year had met the criteria for super league entry....





I agree that Catalans should have a different set of rules, it's a different country and they had a relatively large base of players to choose from, there were quality players not making there way to super league
The crusaders example is difficult because fast tracking them into super league meant they hadnt time to build up a juniour structure, a few years of being at the top of the championships would have helped them grow a fan base and a youth set up
scorpions are the hope for welsh rugby league and i wish them all the luck they will need, crusaders are a waste of time for me and the RFL blew any potential they had just like gateshead paris and sheffield in the past

expansion for me should be about the number of people playing and watching the game, not how far they have to travel to do so

Couldn't agree more... good point well made.

Crusaders in SL simply expedites the growth of the amateur game. Trying to spread into wales offering them only semi-pro RL would never have worked, they have a long history of RU and plenty of RU teams. Crusaders massively increase the visibility of the game in Wales, and will help hugely with the building of the amateur structures. SWS wouldnt exist had it not been for the crusaders.

Paris was never going to work. It was simply a poorly executed mess. Sheffield and Gateshead should have worked and the game would be a lot further on now had we bitten the bullet and taken the pain when we needed to and kept those clubs going.

Thanks, must have been in a coma when that happened!

More evidence that Super League (and its member clubs) need a London team as much as they need Super League??

Murdoch's nobodies fool. He wouldn't be interested in RL in this country without it adds to his profits/portfolio.

Crusaders and the Harlequins are a price worth paying by the RFL/professional clubs.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were clauses in the TV contract if an outpost club was allowed to disappear.

It wouldn't surprise me if you stick pins in an effigy of Mr Murdoch! And what is wrong with profit?

Nice to see Widnes preparations for SL next season well under way.

They've announced Danny Sculthorpe as their first major signing.

Why do you ask?

You are bang wrong!

Sculthorpe has signed on for the rest of this season, for which we will still be in the championship.

Three and a half thousand at Salford Saturday night. Is it time to abandon attempts to expand the game into Manchester?

7,700 at Saints on Friday night. Is it time to abandon attempts to expand the game into Widnes?

Let me make the point a little less subtlety for your benefit.

Salford have been in the game for many, many years yet get crowds at a similarly low level to the expansion clubs in Wales and London.

I got your point G1, and agree FWIW.



Mine was tongue in cheek. Just a little light humour given last weeks news.

I heard once that the Willows was the oldest Rugby League ground in the country - don't know if it was true or not, in fact I may just have made that up.

I was always of the opinion that 12 teams in SL was too many. There simply wasn't (and still isn't) the requisite amount of players of sufficient talent produced to sustain a viable and intense competition with that many teams. Then it was increased to 14 with the addition of 2 further whipping boys chocka full of NRL rejects, Kolpaks and the usual assortment of British transients... Widnes being the next installment.

Remember the original SL vision? We'll have teams in places like London, Birmingham, Barcelona, Milan, Paris. They couldn't even maintain a team in Gateshead, Sheffield or South Wales.

London has failed. In 30 years it's produced one player Louis McCarthy-Scarsbrook and he's now at St Helens. Wrexham (just down the road from Widnes) will fail - the RFL will not financially prop up the Crusaders indefinitely. Salford are a waste of space, Wakey are gone. Widnes, Leigh, Halifax, Workington couldn't hack it.

If Wakey deserve to go, so do Salford, Crusaders and London.

Now please excuse me as I anticipate with all due excitement and overwhelming joy, the second coming of Widnes in SL.

keith i actually like reading your posts when your serious,
but surely london has to be kept on as a sl club for the expansion it has brought about in the schools down there does it not?

But has it? It's all well and good training the 'kids' but where are they?! Yes that may not be Quins fault but a large chunk of blame falls at the feet of the RFL who have got into schools but havent worked out the next part (which could fall into the Quins blame pot)

Wouldnt mind if these kids have transfered themselves into fans but have they? A quick glance at Quins attendences says no

is there a definite link between schools playing and a super league club in the city/region? people are producing lots of stories about young players in Wales and attributing them to Crusaders when the same stories were bandied about when we first took the challenge cup finals there and crusaders weren't in super league

if the criteria for a super league club are assesed equally then there are several clubs that could be on the way out, history is unimportant, only the last three years count so everyone is equal on that front but one team is going to have to go without for the next three years, I dont think that will help grow the number of strong clubs

IMO I think Wakey are staring at the edge in all fairness. A ground share at Barnsley, miles away it is!

I fail to see why history is important, we are in franchise era, if you are not succesful (both on & off the pitch) & not have the right facilities then your time is up