Quote ="Frosties."Another Winding Up Petition for Wakefield. Hearing is 2nd February 2011. www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... field.html'" Includes unpaid VAT, so they won't be able to use the ongoing image rights dispute as a stalling tactic either...

Quote ="Frosties."Another Winding Up Petition for Wakefield. Hearing is 2nd February 2011. www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... field.html'" Includes unpaid VAT, so they won't be able to use the ongoing image rights dispute as a stalling tactic either...

This will not see a court room this time and I suspect Ted and the BOD will call in the Administrators on Monday morning. The fans are voting with their feet and they all accept that Administration is the best way to go, so Ted must know he is no longer going to get the money. As hard as it will be for him to accept, then the sooner he calls them in the better, as I do know that at least 2 if not three people are very, very interested in buying the club from the Administrator.

This means they can get the deal done before the start of the season and Wakefield can continue in SL for this season under new ownership with a 4 point deduction. Also, if rumours are true and the buyer I would rank as being favourite comes in for the club then this guy is in the super rich category and I think this will put Wakefield chances of staying in SL for the next three years in a much better position and I think the RFL might not want to upset this new owner too much! Barnsley in the short term and then a move to Newmarket would still be on the cards with this buyer, who I would suspect make up any shortfall in the Newmarket funding that may be lost in administration on Belle Vue himself. Getting access to new £20m ground for £2m or £3m investment has to be worth it. I still think that this investor would be happy to take the drop for three years and prove himself to the RL if he had to and then a couple of teams in SL might be looking over their shoulders from 2013!

I have done a bit of a 180 deg turn on this and I think that Wakefield's and RL's best chance is this avenue now and the sooner they get on with the better!

Interesting stuff IA. I wonder who the knight on the white steed is....

In all honesty, I think some people get too obsessed with the thought of rich benefactors in our game.

The simple fact is that a well run club with a big supporter base and high merchandise sales, would be far more successful than a club with a rich benefactor and a low supporter basis.

Wakefield could have Bill Gates or Richard Branson owning the club, and the likelyhood is that they still would be a million miles away from competing for a trophy.

The salary cap ensures this to be the case. Hetherington and Caddick are like homeless paupers to the Warrington owner, but which club has recently been run better?

A rich benefactor (allowing spending up to the flat cap) should make an otherwise well run club competitive where it matters most to the fans and any prospective fans - out on the pitch.

Warrington being a reasonably good example of this in practise I'd of thought.

I think it will all come out in the open in the next week or so anyway if the rumour is true, so you can keep guessing until then... but suffice to say he would (I think) be coming in to run a successful but still sustainable sporting business and also his business model would look to copy Leeds Rhinos in many ways, albeit on a smaller scale (longer term, who knows!). That bit about Leeds is not a clue to his identity BTW, he has nothing to do with Leeds or any RL club at present... that might be a clue!

Agreed tvoc 100%, and I am not quite sure why The Teacher thinks Warrington are not just a good an example as Leeds, the initial investment and cash injection have helped them achieve success quickly yes, but they look like a long term sustainable business now to me with a huge increase in average attendance and a very nice modern ground.

I think that Wakefield could well be the next Warrington with a new and affluent owner at the helm and, because of a better demographic, they could ultimately pull in a slightly bigger average crowd than Warrington as well!

Bottom line is the more financially viable clubs we can get the better. If those are ones who are genuine contenders for success then all the better. If they can also get 10,000+ average crowds.

If Wakefield have the potential to be one of this type of club then good for them.

I can't believe you actually put all that. I know you are quite tied into Wakefield at present with the new ground sitation, but don't get carried away with soft spots.

How long have Wakefield been in the game? They have never averaged crowds as big as Warrington. That is why I don't think Warrington are a good example for what tvoc put. Warrington have always been a club with decent enough crowds, and more importantly high merchandise sales.

What a new owner would have to do with Wakefield in order to match what Warrington are is absolutely massive.

I can't tell if you really mean it or are just taking the michael with that last sentence, that Wakefield could potentially draw higher crowds than Warrington. It will never happen.

Let me repeat what I put on the other page. In order to be a succes you have to be a well run club with high income streams (from the operating of the club, not a benefactor), i.e. gate receipts, merchandise sales. Unlike Football in our game it makes diddly poop how rich your owner is. Unless of course you are a rich benefactor who is also running a club with high gate receipts and high merchandise sales.

Where's the "bottom line" in that post? There's a lot of variables and hypothesis.

That was just management speak at the start of your waffling, non point making post wasn't it? I loath management speak. What you just did was effectively say "Bottom line is.........I've no idea and won't tell you what the bottom line is".

Bottom line is you need more blue sky thinking. Perhaps we can take an idea shower so you can take an holistic cradle to grave approach to your posts to ensure you get all your ducks in a row before future postings.

PMSL, Laywer wanting to lecture anyone on the use of language.

The "bottom line" is that if we had a finacially viable club game then maybe we wouldn't see quite so many clubs going to the wall and potentially such turmoil in the sport that we both love.

Is it the bottom line though? Is it really?

Why isn't the club game financially viable? Which clubs have gone to the wall? Does going the wall entail appearing on a Dale Winton TV show?

You have mastered the art of talking a lot whilst saying nothing.

Just because you are bored and still at work stop taking it out on me. If you can't see that without financially viable clubs our game will die as a professional TV Screened entity, then no number of words from me will enlighten you, management or otherwise.

Go home....

Could Wakefield's benefactor be Mr Sykes who developed Meadowhall?

I don't have the figures but I'd be surprised if that stands up to scrutiny pre SL. Before Warrington's move to the Halliwell Jones (adding roughly 4K) I don't beleive there was more than a couple of thousand in it . In 1999 there was less than a thousand for example. All clubs have seen a noticeable uplift in crowds on moving to a new stadium (with the possible exception of Wigan - lots of issues peculiar to Wigan) and I'd be disappointed if Wakefield couldn't share in that renewed sense of optimism.

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I was responding to this comparison rather than a comparison to a 'cashed up' Wakefield should such a thing ever materialise. Unlike some I'm reluctant to state that future possibilities will never happen.

How should we determine which club has been run better? Moran has been Warrington's owner for six full seasons over which time they've gradually established themselves as an attractive proposition for players and spectators. The missing piece for Moran IMO was securing a quality coach and once that was achieved they've become serious contenders capable of beating anyone on their day (other than St Helens obviously.)

Their record would compare reasonably well against that of Leeds 97-02 representing the first six seasons under Caddick's control.

Why do some folk believe that because Wakefield were a founder club of the Northern Union they have some God given right to exist in the top flight today?

The pure and simple fact is that SL Rugby just isn’t that attractive enough in Wakefield to sustain a viable business in today’s economic climate. The bottom line of their P&L shows that.

I’m really not bothered if Wakefield lose their franchise, they tried SL – it didn’t work, so time to move aside and let another club give it a bash. Maybe one day they will rebuild their status enough to be worthy of a franchise but as it stands today they are simply an embarrassment to have in Super League.

losing the franchise may be a good thing. it will give them time to sort there finances out, sort a new ground out and get back on a stable footing.

If the answer to the original question is no will there only be six games in cardiff and will cas get a 'bye'?

It will be sad to see Wakefield leave SL but IMO it would be a good thing for them if they leave SL.

A fresh start to sort out all there off field troubles, once there back on there feet again maybe just maybe they could once again become a SL team.

Time for the Fax to step up to SL

When you're only talking about figures of 4-6k then "a couple of thousand" represents a pretty sizeable difference in percentage terms though.

Are you seriously telling me that Wakefield could effectively double their home support with the right reinvestment and relocation?

They don't have to double their support, adding 4k, like Warrington have to their average since moving to the HJ, would bring Wakefield to an average of around 10k. It would also mean that they would probably sell out at least two and possibly three fixtures at Newmarket per season in SL. Warrington did only have a slightly larger average than Wakefield before moving, so the question to you is why is 4k not achievable?

Let face it, it is not only Warrington that have done this in recent history.... Leeds RLFC/Rhinos have trebled, never mind doubled, their crowd average since the 1980's!

Comparing attendances now in the SL era to when the game was at a nadir in the early 80s is spurious reasoning. Why pick that particular time, other than because it fits your argument?

Leeds have managed to increase their crowds without a stadium move, which would suggest that on field success is a much bigger driver in increasing attendances than having a new facility to play in.

Adding 4k is effectively doubling their home support - where is the extra Wakefield fan for each one who already attends going to come from?

My argument was mainly about if Wakefield could add 4k to their attendance if Warrington did and ask you why you didn't think this was possible... but you are ignoring this question? The issue about Leeds RLFC/Rhinos average was disproving that even doubling a crowd and even trebling a crowd is possible, because it has been done, it was nothing more than that!

I am not arguing that on-field success does add crowd numbers but I still think new modern facilities play just as big a part and of course we then have the whole Chicken and egg argument. Lets face facts, they are never going to be worthy of investment in the crap hole that is Belle Vue... Belle Vue still makes Wheldon Road and The Willows look like state of the art complexes in comparison!

The Wakefield District is a hot-bed of Amateur RL and therefore you have to think that it is very achievable for both Wakefield and Cas to increase their average attendances above 10k and sell out their respective new grounds for some fixtures.

Living in the Wakefield area, I do think that they could add say 3-4k to their crowds, but it would take some years to do so, and would have to be a staged process. In finite terms, the first stage increase would be from the move to a new stadium, and would add IMO around 1500 to 2000 potential regular supporters. Don't forget that not so many away fans go to BV and that parking and access is a complete nightmare. From the people living in the Wakefield area who I have spoken to I think the above is "do-able".

The second stage would then have to be increase via improvements in the quality of the product (rather than the packaging) and would need investment in better players over a consistent period. Again this would IMO add a further 1500 to 2000 spectators taking the overall total up by 3-4000.

If they only move stadium and don't improve the playing staff, I don't see them getting anywhere near an extra 4k spectators through the gates...