So whilst I agree with the lists of players not good enough, we can't just ship them out, without them being replaced with better options. Recruiting 7 or 8 players isn't feasible. Some will go, but some will stay, because we need to for into the cap, and changing so much of a squad in one offseason is too much

Regarding Dwyer's contract situation,
we need Corey Johnson to get back to fitness and have a run in the side, before a decision is made. He has looked good in the few games he has played, but has question marks against his fitness. Classing Holroyd as our 4th prop has left us short in that department and going with just Leeming and Johnson at hooker could be a mistake, especially if Leeming is to be used to cover halfback.

Even if we did move on eight players, which I agree his highly unlikely, I would never expect them to bring 8 players in. Three high quality players (with maybe a bolter from the championship) augmented by the promotion of some of the excellent young players we still produce is the way forward in my opinion.

I'm sure I've not said anything different to anyone else. People seem to be challenging yet agreeing at the same time. I've said Thompson (overseas), Mellor, briscoe and probably Dwyer (let's not forget that his distribution is a major factor holding us back) should move on with 3 coming in, prop, hooker, centre.

Agree 100%

One of the mistakes we keep repeating is re-signing duff players. People say they are 'just squad players' but the reality is they end up playing a lot of games, and tend to get picked over younger ones even if they're not very good. You can make a case for every single one of them to be retained individually but its the set as a group that needs to be gone.

In the backs Sutcliffe and Briscoe should be gone. Neither is good enough, and we now have enough young backs we definitely don't need either of them moving forward.

In the forwards Thompson can be upgraded by almost any out and out prop, particularly if its an overseas one. We need more props not backrowers, and it wouldn't be a big loss to see Mellor and Donaldson go as well. Lose them and we'd still have Gannon, Bentley, Martin, Walters and Smith for the back row. Replace them with just one proper prop and we'd look better balanced immediately. Dwyer just makes it hard for the team to function. Either get him to learn how to pass, or get rid. I almost don't care who else we have.

By picking kids - even if through necessity - JJB has shown the way forward. There's no point in having ten extra squad players if they're not good enough.

Agree with what was said above about Dwyer in that the decision would have been easier to make if Johnson hadn’t had such rotten luck.

Forwards wise I’d keep Donaldson but let bodene go and get an out and out prop. I think Martin is worth an other contract. Prior might retire and I’m hopeful Rohan might sort Tet out.

Briscoe has served us well but there’s Tindall, Simpson and Edwards knocking on the door now.

Having said that there is something to be said for squad harmony, JJB has said how the focus been to get the group together, do you potentially invite that again if you have such a turnover of squad again?

We need a prop that can make the hard yards and we just don't need a quota space filled with an average "Middle".
We have enough backrowers given Martin deserves another deal,even if just 1 or 2 years.

We also could do with a centre that can add some threat to our back line and something needs to happen with hooker.
Leeming is ok and CJ as interchange isn't bad option but Dwyer isn't good enough.
I'd prefer a new hooker that can pass properly and make smart choices.

Dwyer is such a conundrum. He's such an awful hooker in a few respects but often makes the winning play in tight games or decisively turns things in our favour when he comes on. Until we're sure about Johnson I'd keep him - simply because attacking threat is where we've been singularly lacking for a long time and getting rid of a player who sometimes has it would be bold.

Rohan Smith may be the type of coach who can improve his obvious weaknesses. Although if Tony Smith couldn't do it when they were at Warrington then perhaps it really is a lost cause.

The thing is with Dwyer is his attacking threat is a false economy as he limits the attacking threat of the players around him.

I reckon he could land himself a decent two year deal with one of the clubs trying to gain or retain a foothold in SL where perspiration rather than inspiration is the modus operandi. FWIW I'd offer him a deal to stay. He can and does provide an extra dimension at times.

Some Saints fans saying Lomax could be it for season. It’s wide open now if so. If we could somehow put a run together and sneak Playoffs…..

Totally agree

Totally agree

Partly agree. I see his limitations; equally the idea that the players around him have posed much of an attacking threat is pretty fanciful. Should we play to the expected level of a top team then Dwyer doesn't get a look in. Play like a basement dweller and he can be an essential ingredient at times.

Re: Props
We need 2.
And the most important thing, as well as big and metre making, is fitness record.
We can't afford to keep picking up injury prone players.
Holroyd is a big worry, but he's young and should be considered as 5th or 6th prop - not 4th.
Prior is a shadow of the player from 2 years ago, simply because we've flogged him to death.
He shouldn't be playing the minutes he played for us, with only 2 props in the 17, at 34/35 years old.
Tetevano has been a big disappointment, but I can't see him walking away, so he needs other props around him and hopefully Rohan can get the best out of him.
But bottom line is, we need to release Thompson and Mellor and get 2 more props in.

How will your halves and edge players ever look anything like if the first receiver is catching the ball behind their head? Your 9 is always the first link in any attack.

100% this. There have been top teams where the hooker can't run much. There's never been a top team where the hooker cannot pass and play a set of six smoothly, and never will be.

Dwyer wouldn’t be a problem if he was 20 minutes change of pace off the bench. Think how saints use lussick or kr use Litten.

The issue is with injuries that hasn’t always been the case.

For what it’s worth though as much as I like Leeming, for me the jury is still out on his passing too.

Its a game wide issue though. The standard of 9s coming thru simply isnt there. Its, to me, the most important role in the team. They make more decisions, touch ball most often and need to defend in the middle of the field with plenty coming at them.

I do wonder if in junior rugby uf a team has a small fast kid they get put at 9 now?

Corey Johnson has the potential but physically and defensively hes got to improve. Hes capable of it but needs to show it.

I honestly can see Dwyer staying beyond this year.

Leemings contact is weak. His game has been poor all year for me. I wonder if captaincy is weighing him down a bit too.

Our 9s are rubbish but so are most teams 9s.

We have struggled with Hooker for years.

Left field but I’d rather replace Leeming with a hooker that can pass and retain Dwyer for 20 minute impact, where he can be unplayable……

Not a coincidence that Saints by a distance the best team in the league over last 5 years and Roby still the benchmark for distribution from acting half. The props and halves atr quality at Saints but Roby is the oil that fuels the machine!

Briscoe has served us well but there’s Tindall, Simpson and Edwards knocking on the door now.

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The last top hooker we had was Buderus.

These things seem to come in cycles for some reason. 15-20 years ago the game over here was awash with quality hookers, Newton, Cunningham, Roby, back a touch further Lowes, Alker and to a lesser extent Diskin. The game over here went through an era where it brought through loads. Now, not so much.