The Leeds one was againt Bradford in 1947. Bit before my time.

Star signings that strutted their stuff in the 80s? Well, Meninga, Grothe, Kenny, Sterling etc from Australia, Schofield, Hanley, Offiah etc from GB, plus oodles of union 'stars' from the mid-80s onwards.

IIRC average crowds back then were well below today's levels. If you were to trawl back through the old Rothmans yearbooks I have no doubt you'll find some minor effects when a new player first appeared, but as I said, the effect was generally very short-lived.

The discussion is (or was) about Kyle Eastmond. Which games has he changed? Were they important ones?

I take on board your point about the Lewis Jones effect but I'm not sure it would be as pronounced today under similar circumstances. Koukash's Salford revolution might provide some indication of what might be achievable crowd-wise through the acquisition of a few "star" names.

So for a whole decade not too many real game changers. I cannot think of "oodles of Union stars from the mid-80's onwards" than have been signed for English RL. This source was beginning to dry up for real class by the mid-80's.



It is nothing to do with average crowds. The point is do real classy stars with game changing abilities have a positive effect of attendances. I maintain that they do. In most cases these sort of stars are signed by the best supported clubs which is why they remain the best supported clubs. If these same clubs were to change policy and not sign top stars then it is highly likely that their attendances would drop eg Wakefied Trinity, Widnes & Salford.

Of course it is great if you can produce your own world class stars but even at Leeds where we have enjoyed a unique period of success with a hard core of home produced stars we still needed to make signings like Webb and Lauitiiti and without them would probably not have achieved the same success or the same attendances. eg IMO we would not have won one of our championships without having Buderus in the playoffs.

You must also consider that positive effect I mention can not always be judged by extra average crowds but sometimes is would have prevented lower average crowds.

Would you have prefered Leeds had not signed Webb, Ali, Hanley, Grothe and Schofield etc? and do you believe that they were a waste of money?

Warrington? Since they have come into money they have been able to sign some pretty decent names. Their attendances must be better than they were 10 years ago

I think you should ask the Saints fans regarding Eastmond game winning performances but I gues plenty. He has that very rare ability to make things happen out of nothing.



The players I talk of are rare. But SBW has the ability to make the same impact as LBJ and if we were to sign him then I am sure he would increase the gates at all the gorunds he would play on providing he kept his form. I am sure the NZ attendances in this World Cup have been assisted by SBW being back in League.

Perhaps, or then again perhaps it's down to the move from Wilderspool into their shiny new home?

If you want to analysie Warrington as an example you can take the shiny new home out of the equation by examing what effect Alan Langer had on their crowds.

Big names have to produce trophies to get any lasting benefit crowds wise IMO. The Leeds public were gullible enough to swallow the hype in the late 80s when they made big signings and won nowt but attendances were on average lower than there’s been in recent more successful years with less star studded teams.

I remember Bradford getting a short lived attendance boost when signing Terry Holmes but that didn’t work out too well in the long term. Similarly Widnes got a short term boost when they signed Jonathan Davies but nearly went bust within a few years and had to sell him to their bitterest rivals.

Nowadays folk are even more fickle so signing a big name isn’t going to have a major lasting effect on attendances unless it’s combined with great marketing and a winning team lifting silverware. It’s not the era of Lewis Jones anymore, the world has moved on.

Phew! Had me worried there Bullseye. When I saw your name I thought you'd remembered more horror signings with which to torment us



But I agree with your point; after all, a crowd of over 30k was drawn to the Welsh borders to view a dead donkey back in the 50s. I doubt we'd pull that many now were we to sign its modern day equivalent, Lee Mossop.

David Young, John Gallagher, Mark Brooke Cowden, Sateki Tuipolutu etc

Only John Gallagher could be classed as a World Class star out of this lot and even then not sure he had unique game changing abilities. His injury put an end to that so we never found out!

Frano Botica was not a star name when he signed from Union.
He changed (won) a lot of games.

Juan - you seriously don't remember Jonathan Davies, Devereux, Bateman, Terry Holmes, Alan Tait, Craig Innes, John Gallagher, Scott Gibbs, Scott Quinnell et al? You don't remember them being high profile union players - far higher profile than Eastmond has yet in the general sporting consciousness? You don't remember these players joining RL from the mid-80s to mid-90s? Wow.

Jonathan Davies was WRU's golden boy at the time he signed for Widnes. Basically Sam Tomkins in reverse, except more people would have heard of Davies than know Tomkins due to the relative profiles of the sport. Did he bring thousands of extra fans to games wherrever he went? I don't remember that being the case.

38000 in 57 Rogues.There was also another big one in 1961 CC 1st round

Terry Holmes was a star and a good player but not in the game changer class IMO.

Jonathan Davies did have that class in abundance and joined Widnes as defending champions and helped them become the first official World Club Champions in his first year (88/89) and a second successive championship the following year won on the last game of the season in front of a capacity crowd. They also won the Premiership.

Yes Widnes did have financial problems resulting in the sale of 25 first teamers to balance the books but this was due to some poor management. The sale of Offiah to Wigan raised £440K which meant another star had contributed a huge positive effect. Offiah was another star with game changing abilities as many Leeds supporters will be able to testify.

Superstar Davies moved to Warrington and turned around the struggling club which had dwindling support until his arrival. In his first season he almost took them to the championship missing out on points difference. He was twice player of the season and also once Man of Steel. He also scored that memorable try in GB's last defeat of Australia at Wembley in 1994.

So Davies and Offiah proved for at least two clubs apiece their signings were not just a short term boost. In fact just the opposite as they boosted attendances, boosted results and displayed their world class skills to the delight of the supporters.

I agree this is no longer the era of players like Lewis Jones or Jonathan Davies or Martin Offiah and mores the pity. The world has moved on but not necessarily in the right direction. There simply are not the players of real class available to sign any more which is my point. I would agree that signing hyped up so called stars without the real class may only bring a temporary benefit.

Of course I remember these players and I mentioned Jonathan Davies twice in this thread as a real world class star. I have mentioned the positive effect he had on his teams performances, attendances and team success at to different clubs. I have also commented on John Gallagher and Terry Holmes. All of these and the others you mention were top star signings with great talent. I particularly liked Bateman but while all of these were oustanding players not all had that extra bit of world class talent that the likes of Jiffy Davies and LBJ had. But despite this I feel sure they more than balanced the books in their favour for the clubs they played for.

That last sentence is the bit that's wrong IMO. In terms of drawing crowds, I don't remember Gallagher bringing many through the gate at Leeds for example - never mind the fact he was in fact not that good over the medium term.

Just to ask again, as I would hope it is more relevant to your doubts. If potentially, real star players do not put extra numbers on the gate, why did Hanley have a clause in his Wigan and Leeds contracts, to have a share of the gate over a certain crowd level?

Because he thought his presence would increase the gate so valued such a clause, whilst the clubs felt his impact on attendances would be minimal so felt able to give away such a clause cheaply.

"Thought" would suggest he was shown wrong.

I say again, he had it in his Wigan contract, and his Leeds contract. Now if it didn't have the result in his Wigan playing days, why would he think it would have the result for Leeds?

No thought about it. He backed his own horse, and knew what he was doing. Of course he is quite an exeption, considering the level of player he was.

No it doesn't. In 2012 did you think you would post on this board in 2013?

Not sure the relevance. Did Hanley prove that a star player adds crowds through the gate?

To whether star players do much to gate receipts? As much relevance of your claim about Hanley's contracts (are they in the public domain BTW?) and just a correction of your misunderstanding.




What do you think, and why?

Personally, I think they likely have a negligible and short term effect that isn't in line with their frequently high costs. But then I haven't looked for evidence of crowd figures.

What does this have to do with the signing of an injury prone RU player with character issues anyway?

Are there any rumours linking the Rhinos with Eastmond as all I've seen is possible interest from Salford or him staying at Bath?

None at all....but that's not stopped this ' thread' reaching 11 pages