He does acknowledge that it'll be the last time this squad plays together. It'll be interesting to see how deeply the axe bites.

Possibly contrary to some poster's understanding of my viewpoint - I basically share the CEO's belief in the model he prescribes but for it to work you need the key positions to be filled with the right personnel and that starts at the top. Many of the key members of the playing squad have been steadily regressing ever since Hetherington rightly asked this pertinent question in 2012: www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-4617053 yet here we are potentially going into 2015 with the majority of those question marked players still expected to carry the team forward. The Leeds old guard of special players all played in that pivotal Wigan game (Sinfield, McGuire, Burrow, Leuluai, Peacock, Jones-Buchanan, Bailey) and three years later we're still trying to squeeze quality performances out of them but the well is almost dry bar from a few efforts a year and Hetherington surely must know with the change of format next year two of his three targets are beyond the current squad.

Possibly contrary to some poster's understanding of my viewpoint - I basically share the CEO's belief in the model he prescribes but for it to work you need the key positions to be filled with the right personnel and that starts at the top. Many of the key members of the playing squad have been steadily regressing ever since Hetherington rightly asked this pertinent question in 2012: www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-4617053 yet here we are potentially going into 2015 with the majority of those question marked players still expected to carry the team forward. The Leeds old guard of special players all played in that pivotal Wigan game (Sinfield, McGuire, Burrow, Leuluai, Peacock, Jones-Buchanan, Bailey) and three years later we're still trying to squeeze quality performances out of them but the well is almost dry bar from a few efforts a year and Hetherington surely must know with the change of format next year two of his three targets are beyond the current squad.

Quote ="tvoc"Possibly contrary to some poster's understanding of my viewpoint - I basically share the CEO's belief in the model he prescribes but for it to work you need the key positions to be filled with the right personnel and that starts at the top. Many of the key members of the playing squad have been steadily regressing ever since Hetherington rightly asked this pertinent question in 2012: www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-4617053 yet here we are potentially going into 2015 with the majority of those question marked players still expected to carry the team forward. The Leeds old guard of special players all played in that pivotal Wigan game (Sinfield, McGuire, Burrow, Leuluai, Peacock, Jones-Buchanan, Bailey) and three years later we're still trying to squeeze quality performances out of them but the well is almost dry bar from a few efforts a year and Hetherington surely must know with the change of format next year two of his three targets are beyond the current squad.'" I also agree with his model, yet he contradicts himself in the media release. The model should be stability, and should be gradual changes when required, to have continuously the best squad it can put out. Gradual changes, with new youngsters or outside enhancements should have been made over last couple of years. What he says above, is that he acknowledges that next year will be the last time it plays together and that a lot of changes will take place after that, which contradicts the stability model he states. And that instability is as a direct result of the way the squad has been managed.

Quote ="tvoc"Possibly contrary to some poster's understanding of my viewpoint - I basically share the CEO's belief in the model he prescribes but for it to work you need the key positions to be filled with the right personnel and that starts at the top. Many of the key members of the playing squad have been steadily regressing ever since Hetherington rightly asked this pertinent question in 2012: www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-4617053 yet here we are potentially going into 2015 with the majority of those question marked players still expected to carry the team forward. The Leeds old guard of special players all played in that pivotal Wigan game (Sinfield, McGuire, Burrow, Leuluai, Peacock, Jones-Buchanan, Bailey) and three years later we're still trying to squeeze quality performances out of them but the well is almost dry bar from a few efforts a year and Hetherington surely must know with the change of format next year two of his three targets are beyond the current squad.'" I also agree with his model, yet he contradicts himself in the media release. The model should be stability, and should be gradual changes when required, to have continuously the best squad it can put out. Gradual changes, with new youngsters or outside enhancements should have been made over last couple of years. What he says above, is that he acknowledges that next year will be the last time it plays together and that a lot of changes will take place after that, which contradicts the stability model he states. And that instability is as a direct result of the way the squad has been managed.

Quote ="tvoc"Possibly contrary to some poster's understanding of my viewpoint - I basically share the CEO's belief in the model he prescribes but for it to work you need the key positions to be filled with the right personnel and that starts at the top. Many of the key members of the playing squad have been steadily regressing ever since Hetherington rightly asked this pertinent question in 2012: www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-4617053 yet here we are potentially going into 2015 with the majority of those question marked players still expected to carry the team forward. The Leeds old guard of special players all played in that pivotal Wigan game (Sinfield, McGuire, Burrow, Leuluai, Peacock, Jones-Buchanan, Bailey) and three years later we're still trying to squeeze quality performances out of them but the well is almost dry bar from a few efforts a year and Hetherington surely must know with the change of format next year two of his three targets are beyond the current squad.'" Reading this I imagined a load of lemons - we are trying to squeeze the last drops of juice out of lemons that were ripe a few years ago but have now withered away and need squeezing really hard, just to get a few last drips out of. Instead, you could just get a couple of new lemons that will be ripe in a short while and then will be able to get a lot more juice going forward. I use this analogy partly because I am bought some lemons at the weekend and plan to make a drizzle cake

Quote ="tvoc"Possibly contrary to some poster's understanding of my viewpoint - I basically share the CEO's belief in the model he prescribes but for it to work you need the key positions to be filled with the right personnel and that starts at the top. Many of the key members of the playing squad have been steadily regressing ever since Hetherington rightly asked this pertinent question in 2012: www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-4617053 yet here we are potentially going into 2015 with the majority of those question marked players still expected to carry the team forward. The Leeds old guard of special players all played in that pivotal Wigan game (Sinfield, McGuire, Burrow, Leuluai, Peacock, Jones-Buchanan, Bailey) and three years later we're still trying to squeeze quality performances out of them but the well is almost dry bar from a few efforts a year and Hetherington surely must know with the change of format next year two of his three targets are beyond the current squad.'" Reading this I imagined a load of lemons - we are trying to squeeze the last drops of juice out of lemons that were ripe a few years ago but have now withered away and need squeezing really hard, just to get a few last drips out of. Instead, you could just get a couple of new lemons that will be ripe in a short while and then will be able to get a lot more juice going forward. I use this analogy partly because I am bought some lemons at the weekend and plan to make a drizzle cake

That the club could even consider squeezing a further season or two out of the current incumbents and still consider the squad good enough to target all silverware is more of a telling comment on the dire playing standards which prevail at most other SL clubs.

Had Leeds turned around at the end of 2012 having just won yet another Grand Final, and said they were going to let McGuire and Leuluai go at the end of the year to be replaced by say Matty Smith and Alex Walmsley, can you seriously tell me there wouldn't have been threads all over these boards kicking up merry hell at the coach and CEO?

Gradual replacement is fine, but it's reliant on two things.

Players of a suitable quality being available, affordable and willing to come to the club. If you're going to be releasing a player, his replacement needs to at least have the potential to be as good or better otherwise you're weakening the club for no good reason. You wouldn't trade in an old Ferrari for a brand new Skoda.

The player you're replacing being on a gradual, consistent path of decline. Not just a couple of bad games here or there, but a consistent downslope in terms of performance. There have been a few players at Leeds who have looked to be in that situation in recent years, but have then gone on to produce a run of games (including in very big games) where they have defied that trend. Think of the 2011 and 2012 playoff series for example.

It's hard to look at a player who is say 31-32 and say "you'll be finished by the time you are 34, so we need to replace you now". In a salary-capped sport, it's no longer possible to sign a player "just in case" and leave him sat in the stands for a year while the incumbent proves you wrong, in the way Wigan did with the likes of Nigel Wright.

And had we done that we would be in better position going forward than we are now, so instead of getting moaned at we would be praising GH.

But that is all in hindsight. Problem now though is that the mistake has been made, and instead of accepting that and looking for a way to improve the position quicker, he is trying to hide it and give the perception that it is all right, and expect us top go along with it.

As I’ve said in the past, when you post your genuine opinion it’s hard for me to disagree. When we compare the standard of SL 2004 to SL 2014 they’re a mile apart. This is probably due to a number of contributing factors.

The never-ending recession (although we are apparently over it now!!) means, on a whole there has been a lot less investment in the sport over the last 10 years, therefore attracting less youngsters.

The GBP to AUD has fallen massively over the last decade and with the increase in the NRL salary cap, playing in ESL is far less attractive now which means top quality antipodean players are no longer available.

As the overall standards slip there is less need to be as good as before – an ever decreasing circle so to speak. You don’t need to be as good to be as good… if you get my drift?

All these factors contribute to the sliding standards of SL and personally I find it a little offence from GH, telling me that 2015 is going to be the most exciting year to date and we have the most exciting squad to compete. Also that the older players can and will do a better job than they did 5 years ago!!!

Our squad was exciting 7 years ago, competitive 2 years ago and showing signs of its age this year. Next year it will be far from exciting or competitive.

I might be made to eat my words come seasons end next year, and I sincerely hope I do, just can’t see anything more than an average team finishing mid table.

All good points...but will you still be buying a season ticket (thus helping to vindicate the status quo)?

Still undecided, going to HQ once a fortnight isn't just about the Rugby for me - there is the social side to it as well. I'll have to weigh up the pros/cons before parting with my hard(ish) earned. As it stands right now there are more cons than pros.

The standard now is significantly better than in 2004 in my opinion. Take a look at the defences in some of those games we played, they're awful and even London in 2014 would've done alright against them.

And we did that with such plodders as Wayne McDonald, Chris Feather, & Franny Cummins.

Skoda Superb surely?

The superb always felt too big to fit comfortably in my garage so have stuck with the Octavia instead although I now drive electric wherever and whenever possible. Saving studiously for one with a bigger battery - hopefully 2017/18 ..... if I'm around that long.

I also got my email from Uncle Gary this morning, which on reflection makes me even less likely to buy a season ticket next year. Basically he is saying "come and see the legends before they retire" well thanks but we've seen them for years. That bit will only appeal to people who've never seen them before.

He also says that we will have the best squad ever assembled, so does he believe that all the aged players will be better next year than this year, or that the coach will drop them for younger players coming through who will be better? I know he kind of has to make these "marketing statements" but this one is pretty embarrassing.

Either way, I can only see his email having quite the opposite effect to that intended and that it will see less ST holders than this year.

I will get my prediction in first for next year, Leeds will finish 5th.

Isn't GH's "target" the same as every other SL club's "target"? Meaningless words....but I guess there will still be sufficient SCO's (and Fatboys) who will fall for the weasel words/buy for 'other' reasons contrary to the on field expectations.

I'm not even sure I will renew my sky sports subscription at this stage (I always suspend it after the GF). The number of exciting competitive matches appear to be getting fewer and fewer. The game does desperately need some exciting new talent injection: for Sutcliffe to be listed in the top 3 for an award is rather indicative. What exactly has [ihe [/idone this season for such considerion??

I did wonder how long it would take for one of the SL Moonies to turn up extolling the virtues of the current SL product and playing standards.

SmokeyBro must be pedalling his Moonie stuff on the VT instead.

The Octavia I had a few years ago was superb enough for me: probably the best car I've ever had and that includes cars supposedly in the class catergory above.

As for driving electric....with a 'bigger battery'.....please don't tell me you're one of those purportedly doing it for the environment?

I agree with most of your post apart from one bit. I think Leeds will finish in the Top 4 next season in spite of a further fall in playing standards at the club and among SL clubs as a whole. This process of gradual slide has been ongoing for the greater part of the last decade.

The likes of Huddersfield and Castleford are whipping boy SL rabble whose Top 4 placings are entirely dependent upon other SL clubs tossing it off in order to finish 5th or 6th.

Grr, I have just had 'Uncles Gaz's' email. This bit got my back the most;

"We also have stability which, I believe, is a key factor for success. Leeds United had it in the Revie era and Manchester United had it with Alex Ferguson. When clubs lose it, they often suffer and take a long time to get it back. I know fans like to see a raft of new signings and new coaches and that model certainly operates in football today, but for me, that is the perfect recipe for non-achievement."

Overlooking the fact (as I have outlined on another thread) that people were saying for 2 years about prior to Fergie's retirement about his 'stable' midfield being in dire need of new legs and creativity as they were on their last legs at the same time and their replacements not being good enough. And look how it went for Moyes when he inherited that 'stability' and how much LVG has then had to spend to try and quickly address it with players in their prime and thus commanding top dollar.

As others have said, having seen the legends of KL and JP in the last 2 years (thus able to talk about them fondly in 50 years to Gary's relatives when they are in charge) what impetus is there to me to watch them again this year, when they are a bit less effective?

May as well take the year off and pick and choose and then become a SCO again in 2016 when he then has to contradict the 'stability' line as he only has half a team for failing to address it earlier?

I've never understood the season ticket purchasing mentality, unless it's about reserving the particular seat you've sat on for years? So you can sit alongside mates or family.

The discount (2 free games) is hardly worth it, though I have noticed in recent years the policy of inflated prices for those paying at the turnstile which doesn't sit comfortably with me at all and is another reason why I no longer attend games.

Moreover, I'd have to be paid to summon up enough enthusiasm to turn up for games against well over half of the opposition SL clubs, and that's just the prelude to considering Leeds tossing-it-off attitude towards the regular season.

Season tickets - Pah!

Whilst i agree with GH on his stability quote to a certain extent, i really think he is in fantasy land if he thinks we can continue to operate at the top table beyond next year without spending some cash.

Yes, next year this squad will be competing, but when JP,Kylie,Sinfield,Mcguire,JJB and burrow have all gone, which will more than likely in almost all cases be end of 2016 what then? The fringe players have shown on the whole they can't be trusted to step up and a lot of the young lads have so havn't ripped up too many trees yet and although time is still on their side at this minute you wouldn't be confident leaving the reigns in the hands of the likes of Singleton,Ward and Sutcliffe.

SL thankfully is not of a great standard right now but Saints look like they are building to be a bigger force in coming seasons.Wigan seem to be producing quality youngsters who will improve in coming seasons and Wire always seem ready to go out and spend cash when they need to.Who knows,Salford and the Doc may finally get it right in next couple of seasons and Catalans will get stronger too with the likes of world class talent Carney on board.And what is to say that our true young back line superstars Watkins and Hardaker won't see the writing on the wall the next couple of seasons and take up the challenge of the NRL??

lots to ponder for GH.I know he is a shrewd man and this stuff gets wheeled out every year for ticket sales but the fans can see the writing on the wall and it now comes accross as him burrying his head in the sand.

My current Octavia was purchased new in 2006, lovingly cared for and has so far done 90K faultless miles but now she sits occupying the 2nd car/range extender role while we fight over who gets to drive the Leaf. Ironically I was only 'allowed' to go electric if the Octavia was kept on but now weekends apart I barely get to use it.



I do it partly for the environmental issues, partly for the pleasure of driving past filling stations without even caring about the current cost of dead dinosaurs but mostly it's for the fun of seeing the looks of disbelief on the faces of stunned BMW drivers I've just left standing at traffic lights - unless they're sat in a i3 in which case they've probably smoked me instead.

As we are on the deluded (in the best possible way of course) theme here maybe we're not quite OT....what about "problem-shifting". By solving one issue, do electric cars not create another? And, if so, does this environmental harm then outweigh any advantages? I have read that the "global warming potential" of the process used to make electric cars is twice that of conventional cars.

BUT yes I would more likely buy an electric car to blow away the BMW brigade.....the Ampera is one that looks particuarly interesting to me

I too got the email, and read the identical info in the press release last night.

As a reasonably intelligent person who can think for themselves I can read between the light. Many people aren't and can't.

For me, the countless years in a row that the best squad ever has been trotted out is tiresome, he should at least look to be a bit more creative with the wording.

For me though there is a balance to be set, between being loyal to the old stars who have given us a decade to remember, and the next generation of this team. Cast the stars off once their age sneaks past 30 and what does that say to the next generation about the club rewarding their loyalty. Leave them in place, and you will have to do a mass clearout, and recruitment in a short space of time.

One of the ways to deal with this is to introduce players from the juniors in a gradual manner, so that as experience increases, they take the place of the star as their effectiveness decreases. That is built on the assumption that the new player has potential to be of similar quality to the one they are rrplacing. This is how we were able to deal with the loss of Ellis who was effectively replaced by Ablett.

Regarding the best squad ever, its a standard means to try to eek out a few more season ticket holders, and just keeps it top of mind for people who still want to go, but haven't yet made the purchase.

I would expect another press release in the new year, possibly part way through the season which sets more realistic expectations for the season, once the issue of selling season tickets is irrelevant. Saying that your targets are to win all the trophies is a cliche, but failure to deliver is a real possibility and so it makes a rod for his own back.

As someone who lives a good 70 miles from headingley, the season ticket is never really an option, especially when you look at the state the m1 is on a Friday evening. I think the biggest reason to get one could be social, or it could be that its something you enjoy, and a season ticket makes you go, where picking and choosing would mean you almost never go, even though you enjoy it. They can't even trot out the reason that you get to guarantee a cup final spot, as for the last 4 years there have been empty seats aplenty at both finals

Quote ="nantwichexile"As we are on the deluded (in the best possible way of course) theme here maybe we're not quite OT....what about "problem-shifting". By solving one issue, do electric cars not create another? And, if so, does this environmental harm then outweigh any advantages? I have read that the "global warming potential" of the process used to make electric cars is twice that of conventional cars. BUT yes I would more likely buy an electric car to blow away the BMW brigade.....the Ampera is one that looks particuarly interesting to me'" Even if the environmental impact of making an electric car were twice that of a conventional car how would that look over the car's lifetime? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQpX-9OyEr4 My personal petrol station is in my garage - my electricity comes from 100% renewable sources ie wind and solar. Even if my electricity was supplied by one of the big six it would still come from a variety of sources, not just those reliant on burning planet polluting fossil fuels and fortunately the electric car will quite happily consume via a three pinned plug regardless of it's origin - clean or dirty. The Ampera solves one of the biggest issue of electric car ownership - range anxiety - but does so by carrying around with it three systems that add to the weight and complexity. It's all electric range although limited between 30 and 40 miles depending on driving style and conditions I could live with but the four seat configuration made it a non-starter. If I need to replace the Octavia I'd consider one but as they are being replaced shortly I'd consider it's successor. _____ I think this really is way off topic now and I wouldn't want to distract attention away from the healthy sceptisism being shown towards the CEO and his recent press release.

Quote ="nantwichexile"As we are on the deluded (in the best possible way of course) theme here maybe we're not quite OT....what about "problem-shifting". By solving one issue, do electric cars not create another? And, if so, does this environmental harm then outweigh any advantages? I have read that the "global warming potential" of the process used to make electric cars is twice that of conventional cars. BUT yes I would more likely buy an electric car to blow away the BMW brigade.....the Ampera is one that looks particuarly interesting to me'" Even if the environmental impact of making an electric car were twice that of a conventional car how would that look over the car's lifetime? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQpX-9OyEr4 My personal petrol station is in my garage - my electricity comes from 100% renewable sources ie wind and solar. Even if my electricity was supplied by one of the big six it would still come from a variety of sources, not just those reliant on burning planet polluting fossil fuels and fortunately the electric car will quite happily consume via a three pinned plug regardless of it's origin - clean or dirty. The Ampera solves one of the biggest issue of electric car ownership - range anxiety - but does so by carrying around with it three systems that add to the weight and complexity. It's all electric range although limited between 30 and 40 miles depending on driving style and conditions I could live with but the four seat configuration made it a non-starter. If I need to replace the Octavia I'd consider one but as they are being replaced shortly I'd consider it's successor. _____ I think this really is way off topic now and I wouldn't want to distract attention away from the healthy sceptisism being shown towards the CEO and his recent press release.