A very valid one in light of some comments this weekend. It's a lesson posters on here have been failing to learn since about 2007.

Wigan P4 W4 D0 L0 F140 A40 Pts8
Saints P4 W2 D0 L2 F103 A94 Pts4
--------------------------------------------
Leeds P4 W0 D0 L4 F38 A147 Pts:0

HTH

If you are going to do the league ladder, you really should include the 5 clubs you thought would finish above Leeds.

I'm not including those clubs who I don't believe can win SL - that'll be Warrington, Huddersfield and Catalan who have never reached a single GF between them. Their recent regular season flirts with SL success remain meaningless as they flatter only to deceive in the end.

So in your eyes only Wigan and Saints can be champions, ergo they will be the teams that compete for it in GF? Really???

I haven't completely written Leeds off yet.

I take it your knee has?

It's hardly a knee jerk given what we have witnessed over the last couple of years, but yes I'd be suprised to see Leeds make the GF never mind win it.

Nice to see you are keeping your options open just in case they do manage to pull it off again. You can't beat backing all the horses just in case can you Jeff...

You make last year sound like an incredible achievement.

It wasn't.

How many times do I have to mention the current play-off system rewarding mediocrity before it finally sinks in?

Yes, even this crap Leeds squad could win it again from 5th (your prediction) or 6th (my prediction). All it takes is an easy home game followed by some luck... another away game victory at a pretender club like Huddersfield or Catalans a week later would suffice. Don't even need to turn up and play well for either of those games.

Two good performances at the end and a bit of luck is all it would take to win it again. The players know this and so does the coach.

Warrington (another pretender club) are beatable. So are Saints.

I do concede that Wigan are an extremely problematic hurdle to overcome but they may run out of steam again and/or suffer injuries at the wrong time.

I don't think Leeds will win it this year (extremely unlikely) but I'd take them ahead of pretenders Warrington, Hudds and Catalan in the final shake-up.

How's your knee?

It's amazing how different is around here when the sorting office is shut.

3rd wasn't it?

How's your knee today?

It's ironic the fact that you feel the need to lecture me over how poor most of the clubs are, I'm very well aware of that thanks, and fully understand that Leeds would have to pretty much not turn up at all not to make the play offs. Not good for the sport as a whole.

I'm interested to know specifically of what I've put on this thread, what it is that makes you think that I think last year was an incredible achievement. Wigan fell apart, Wire bottled it, and Hudds had their usual end of season collapse. Not rocket science for a team who have played in so many showcase games (if not winning them all, especially in the cup) to be able to raise their game when realistically there was precious little to stop them getting to the final. Even there, Saints were crapping themselves waiting for the inevitable Leeds victory.

This year is different, Leeds are actually much worse than last season, Wigan much better in both form and structure. Warrington will have learned from their bottling it last year, and Saints and Hudds are capable but not likely to get there this season. Catalans are a wild card, but as all wild cards, they are just as likely to go out in week 2 as they are to win it.

Oh and the knee's fine thanks, it doesn't jerk anything like as much as you'd like to believe.

Immediately after Friday's result, you wrote: [i"It's entirely possible that we will be similarly embarrassed in the cup semi, by the same team, and finish 6th or lower in SL"[/i.

If that isn't your knee jerking uncontrollably, then what is?

My knee is always under control and I'll stick by my 6th placed prediction, unlike you with your original 5th placed prediction.

is that the best you can do, really, pmsl...

Is the above not true? Given the current gulf in quality we could well be similarly embarrassed in the cup semi. That's not a knee jerk it an accurate statement. Should I have waited 24 hours before posting it not to incur your stalking?

You make me laugh, keep it up!

No stalking, though I do always anticipate your knee-jerking arrival on this forum within nanoseconds of a rhinos defeat, particularly an embarrassing one. This has been noticed by others too I might add.

My knee isn't jerking to the degree that I think Wigan will smash Leeds by 50 in the CC Semi, nor is it jerking to the degree that I consider they could finish lower than 6th or even outside the 8 altogether



There's nothing accurate about your statements - knee-jerk statements rarely finish up as accurate.

If you could stabilise your knee, you may be in a position to consider that Leeds could finish as high as 5th as per your original prediction and perhaps provide Wigan with a more competitive game in the Cup, as opposed to the knee-jerking re-evaluations which are currently skewing your thoughts.

Just shows heart over head - never mind, as you have demonstrated relentlessly you cannot get it right all the time. McDermott didn't have a bigger critic than you for most of last season but in typical Gareth fashion a huge u-turn was made when things didn't pan out quite as you had predicted. As I have pointed your stance on Hardaker has polarised to the point where you are suggesting Senior as a solution. A bit like Buderus, not half the player Diskin is, overrated, over paid until he upped his game when it mattered, good job he did.

How do you say Guffaw/b0llocks - I just think ramblings of a bully who doesn't like it when someone dares to suggest he isn't quite the oracle he thinks he is.

Gareth time to match your big mouth with some money for charity - I bet £100 Leeds don't make the GF this year. Money to the Jane Tomlinson fund.

This isn't knee jerking - in the last 9 games Leeds have lost 6 yes twice as many as they have won - all this talk is not on the back of one poor performance this is over a a third of the season.

He wouldn't want to be embarrassed like he was last year, all the egg still hasn't dried and it certainly will not be forgotten by those who he so arrogantly patronised last season.

As the saying goes what goes around!!

It's funny how you claim not to be stalking me, yet know where I will be and when, along with saving my previous comments. Looks like stalking to me. This has been noticed by others I might add.

With regard to the the comments I made about a similar result in the Cup semi, it's entirely possible, hardly a knee jerk and frankly even claiming it is makes you look desperate.

My knee is very stable thanks, no major readjustment from a fun thread before the season started, just realism that the situation is a little worse than I anticipated, and other clubs are a little better. 5th to 7th is hardly world shattering as frankly there are only 3 or 4 good teams in SL at the moment.

You're right about real knee jerk statements rarely being accurate, let's look at this again at the end of the season when the facts are in place rather than your petty little agenda.

I don't follow. What we've witnessed during the last couple of years is Leeds reach and win the GF from circumstances exactly the same as we're in now.

Have I touched a nerve David?

Firstly, I'll not respond to the ramblings you have made up there but simply point out your hypocrisy in that before the season started you said the squad was good enough to finish second and now you say the squad is garbage.

Speaking of hypocrisy....

You satisfied about the merits of her fiundrasing now she's done the decent thing and popped her clogs? Shall I open my big mouth and remind everyone about your opinion of Jayne whilst she was alive and fighting cancer?

Of course it's knee-jerking from you and it's knee-jerking of the highest order. In response to Friday's result you've called for a complete reconstruction of the squad, the sacking of the current captain and the removal of the current coach.

Leeds performances and results during the regular season this year are no surprise to me. They are merely carrying on where they left off last season.

Surely you agree it's a given Leeds will qualify for the play-offs? Or is your knee now jerking so far that it's smacked you in the mush and you now think they'll not qualify?

Have you also had a SmokeyTA moment of mistaken identity?

How was I embarrassed last season?

I predicted they'd finish 5th and they did. I repeated the 5th mantra on numerous occasions last year when all the knee-jerkers (like you) were knee-jerking your collective way to predicting that Leeds would finish outside the 8 at the rate they were going.

I also predicted the entire Top 8 along with only one other individual on this forum.

I also predicted that Leeds had a tidy draw in the play-offs last year and would reach week 3 at the very least when others like you were predicting possible losses to Hull and Hudds.

I didn't predict Leeds beating Warrington but guess what? I don't recall you or anyone else predicting that either, so there's no embarrassment on my part.

How about you as your knee-jerks vacillate between predicting 1st and 2nd placed finishes, or 9th and 10th placed finishes and the end of the world as we know it?

2009 - Team finishing 1st beats team finshing 2nd to win Grand Final
2010 - Team finishing 1st beats team finishing 2nd to win Grand Final
2011 - Team finishing 5th beats team finishing 3rd to win Grand Final

Cue '8 team playoffs reward mediocre sides', pretty strong knee jerk right there, of course had it been Catalans who won from 6th and not Leeds from 5th i can't help but think the knee would of stayed quite still.

You could also add the fact that only last year was it considered 'easy' for 5th to get to the GF by beating the first placed club away from home (after having beaten the 4th placed club away from home).

The reason it is now considered 'easy' is simple - because Leeds actually managed it. If you look at any other year, 5th vs 1st away would have been considered highly unlikely. It was by most last year too - including Warrington's management seeing how they picked Leeds - until Leeds did it.

I don't think Warrington picked Leeds because they thought it would be an easy fixture at all. I'm sure they realised Leeds would potentially be a dangerous play-off opponent only not as potentially dangerous as picking Wigan that's all. In addition sending Wigan to St Helens was also a complete no brainer just as it was when Leeds did the same in year one of the waste of space club-call gimmick. Maybe one year it'll throw up a surprise choice to justify it's existence but it's fairly unlikely and will remain the complete irrelevance it's been since day one.

__________

As for the ladder, the only time to see which posters come closest to predicting the outcome will be after 27 rounds not 15/16.

After the recent Hull defeat Coach McDermott in his chirpy post match interview on Sky was expressing the view he and his players are still aiming for the League Leaders Shield this year.