This area seems a bit of lottery to me at the moment. You see teams getting away with all sorts of infringements for the majority of the game and then the ref will penalise a team for something that seems relatively innocuous in comparison to what's gone before. I thought the same thing happened to Salford when we were carrying the ball out away from our line in the 2nd half.

Interesting game if we are genuine contenders should we be struggling to beat teams at the base of the table?

Thought Salford looked to be an improving side and were a match for us for the most part. Harris looks to be getting a grip with the structures

On us I thought JJB was my MOM with excellent games from Zac, Burrow and Briscoe. On the other side Peacock, Hall and Ablett weren't great.

There has to be a better kicker than Zac!!

The little things needed to be winning silverware are lacking. Twice leeds put up a bomb deep in salfrods half and within seconds salford were halfway up the field.

Salford are battling for 8th spot, leeds should have won that game comfortably. They had chances once they got in front to take command and through incompetence continually allowed salford a way back into the game.

It wasn't good.

If you care to read my post you will see what I actually said was



The key word was "tempted" I then went on to still include him in the selction process but argued that he and Ward be rested to give Singleton and Minchella a chance to prove themselves.

On current form (last 5 games played each) Walters has made 147 tackles & 36 marker tackles, Ward 124 & 33MTs and Bailey 122 & 21MTs. Apart from being important in themselves the marker tackles show that the player was most likley to have been 1st or 2nd into the previous tackle.

Walters has only missed 3 more tackles than Bailey but has made 25 more (5 per match) so hence I suggested he should play on merit. Ward has missed 2.2 tackles per game more than Bailey but I cannot recall that they cost us 6 points and a victory like when Bailey vacated his post last week. You may not want to record this as a miss but I regarded it as a mess!

Like I said we know what Bails can do and he has the big match experience so Big Mac will have him penciled in so all the more reason to make a decision on Singleton and Minchella.

Ward has been unfairly picked on IMO. True he has not shown the same form as when he first broke into the side. But we know he has handling ability but is averaging 28.5 tackles per game and he has made 30% more tackles (457) to Bailey's 347. Bailey may have played a couple of games less but still puts in fewer tackles per game than Ward. In addition Ward is our 2nd best forward offloader equal with Ablett and Ward makes 11 times more offloads, 200% more clean breaks and more tackle busts per game than Bailey.

Overall this season Ward has missed 2.87 tackles per game and Bailey 1 missed tackle per game however with our rushed defence he is in good company with Ablett, Delaney & JP. So although these missed tackles stats are of concern his positives easily outway his negatives.

By the way BB apart from Ward for Delaney I picked the rest of the team right!

Salford are battling for 8th, but have had different coaches and form.

Maybe Harris from the start and they'd be in the 8 already instead of chasing it.

Zak has been a pretty good place kicker previously !! Burrow can kick can't he?

Salford didn't look like a 'base of the table' side; they are obviously an improving side.

For me Burrow at halfback alongside McGuire looked our best halfback combination for some time. Shock horror! considering which numbers they wear....When Burrow went to dummy half our half backs again looked ponderous. McGuire had his best game for quite some time.
It does look like it's our right threequarters turn to be the more threatening again.... coincidence now that Hardaker is back at FB? Hardaker incidentally probably saved Leeds the match (again). His last line of defence work is sublime - apart from the 'soft' try of course.

I agree JJB looked good; Walters always looks to threaten making a break with his enthusiastic running.

However Leeds still look far from the finished deal....not long left to get it right now

You nearly picked the same team as McDermott....not quite the same as 'right'

Aiton is working hard but does daft stuff for me. Had good moments, but let's himself down with brain farts in both attack and defence

JJB was MOM for me with a huge tackling effort and he drove the ball in well too. Walters also put in a good tackling stint and it was while these two were rested that Salford came back. Once they returned our defence looked more solid.

Burrow was good at both 7 and 9 and I thought Mags had a good game too. Singleton worked hard but he still looks a bit lightweight to me. JP, Kylie, Aiton and Ablett looked a bit tired.

IMO we look to be getting some rhythm back despite one or two still lacking sharpness. I will take the win in what was a real banana skin in waiting. Salford could trouble some of the contenders in the remainder of the season.

Burrow can kick and should have been kicking last night IMO.

With Burrow and McGuire together things looked quicker through the halves - perhaps he should continue with that and put Sinfield at 13 - you never know it might just work.

What is frustrating again was the lack of usable ball to Watkins or Moon in the second half - they can unlock defences but not from their 30 from a standing start.

Salford are 10th in this league - this should have been easier than it was. JP, Kylie and Ablett look tired I would be resting them next week against Bradford

I thought Ward visibly dropped off a few tackles as well as the noted dropped ball (and well-taken try). He's clearly struggling with confidence - sometimes this can happen with hyped juniors. Hope he's not the next Richard Gunn!

Reckon he'll benefit from a full pre-season, but unless his form improves he shouldn't be first choice for the play-offs.

We have to persevere with Hardaker as back-up to Sinfield. He is the future.
Last night was probably his worst display, though even Sinfield rarely goes for kicks from that distance.

I was making a light hearted comment but I have to disagree.

Are today's players fitter? Yes but yesteryear's players would be if they trained full time.
Are today's players bigger? Yes, but see above.
Are today's players more skillfull? Not in my opinion. The game is more about athletic ability than guile and skill
Are today's players tougher? Don't make me laugh

I think it's today's players who wouldn't last 20 minutes of one game in days gone by. Imagine Ian Kirke vs Kelvon Skerrett, Karl Fairbank or Kurt Sorenson.

They can be as tough and dumb as you want, but those three wouldn't even make championship sides these days. They were exactly the sort of players who you would never have got any more pace out of, and wouldn't be able to match the modern player. All three didn't have the attitude and work ethic that is so important these days. They were stars of their own era.

The previous game has gone. Let it go, and embrace what we have now.

To be fair mate those listed would destroy Kirke in the warm up!

i'd have those three at leeds now and they must be pushing 60!

With the same pro environment we see nowadays how do you know that?
Their "attitude & ethic" was good enough for the era they grew up and playing in ergo different era/environment they would adjust to it!

Hardly a fair comparison to compare one of the most average props in todays game with 3 of the best from their era. I'd imagine the likes of Peacock, Burgess, Graham and Jared Waerea-Hargreaves would just fine in any era.

The regard the game in the 1980s is held in on here is ridiculous at times. Just because it was dirtier doesn't necessarily mean it was any tougher than todays game.

CS-There was plenty of skill and genuine biff on show in that era it wasn't all about being "dirtier".

There was, but defences were slower and more fragmented too. The "biff" as it's so affectionately referred to was nothing more than thuggery and cheap shotting most of the time, there wasn't skill or toughness involved.

I agree in large part. I have no reason to think the top players of that era wouldn't be top players today and vice versa. Some would make it and some wouldn't, both ways.

The players are obviously much fitter, as you say that's down to the full time pro environment today.
I think the players are far, far bigger and the game is far tougher on the body than it was in the 80's & 90's. Now obviously that's mitigated to some degree by the conditioning the players receive but I still think each game is tougher and harder on the body than 20-30 years ago.
Again, this isn't meant as disrespecting the players of that era, just that the modern game is very different.
As for the skill aspect, it's obviously subjective, but I don't necessarily think the players of that era where any more skillfull than players today. Just that the game was very different. I think if you put Sinfield, McGuire & Burrow into the 80's/90's they'd be top players then as they are now. It can seem like players, especially halfbacks & centres where more skillfull then because they had much more time available to look up and see a gap, and defences were far less structured.

As mentioned, put Peacock, Graham etc in I'm sure they'd hold their own.

I'm not someone who thinks everything about the modern game is wonderful, I think it's often a bit boring to watch and the way it's played and refereed often leads to one-sided results. Which is a big problem for the international game. I'm coming around to the view of re-introducing "proper" scrums to try and open the game up a bit more and maybe provide another dimension to play. But I'm also not one who thinks everything about the past was wonderful either.
A top player then would, 99% of the time, be a top player now and vice versa.

Presumably you're referring to a lack of toughness on the part of the perpetrators. A great deal of toughness was often displayed by those running the ball at the headhunters.

jjb was my clear mom,it is great to see him back and playing so well after his disrupted season,i know that i am biased but we are a far more eager and energetic team when he is on the field,we are certainly going to need his input when the big games come around

big raps too for minchella and walters as they both played very well and certainly look like they deserve a squad place next season without a doubt
both smashing lads too when you meet them

I totally agree. I am optimistic for the playoffs because with both Burrow and JJB back and in form we have two players who are so crucial for Leeds. Both have the ability to lift their teammates with their work rate, energy and enthusiasm apart from their natural rugby skills. In Walters we have a youngster who looks to have been formed straight out of the JJB mould.

Unless you were there to witness the real 'Era of the biff' then your comments do not have substance. As has been stated by others todays game is more athletic but certainly not more skilled and with not any more individual pace. If you had been around in the 50's and 60's you would have seen real toughness on display from most teams.

The players were part time but fit. No SL player is tougher or fitter than the likes of Vince Karalius who Alex Murphy recalled used to run 6 miles from Widnes to St Helens to training and back two evenings a week. On his GB debut in the 2nd test in Brisbane in 1958 he had injured his back in the first half and couldn't stand up in the dressing room at half time. But GB had had several players injured including the captain and prop Alan Prescott who had broken his arm in the third minute but continued to play the whole match. On seeing this Karalius staggered out of the dressing room and moved from loose forward to replace stand-off Dave Bolton who had come off with a broken collarbone. He went on to play a viatal role in the test victory for GB and IMO would have been just as tough and skilled had he played in SL.

Or nearer to home take Jack Fairbank (father of Karl) a farmer by day who trained in the evenings but was built like a rock and was a ferocious tackler. Remember that these were the days where all played 80 minutes with no subs and the packs competed for the ball. For part of this period there were unlimited tackles too so defenders often had to keep tackling for many minutes at a time. Rugby League has always been a tough and skillful game so do not take for granted that the game is tougher or more skillful these days.