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| I do get what some are saying about generally falling out with the game, as a Hull fan of 30 plus years , I've seen great times and some really dark days. It isn't the team I fell out of love with, it is the brand, RL in general. The craft and guile has largely disappeared and you now have wingers who are the size of, if not much bigger, than props used to be. Players like Long, Topliss, Millward,Schofield and Gregory , to name a few, were entertainers, Matty Smith is by some regarded as the best scrum half our English game has and , with all due respect, would not get anywhere near a top team of the previous eras.
This season, despite my having a season pass, I have found better things to do than watch muscle "outmuscle" muscle, and Hull have had a great season , so I think I can sympathise with a lot of opinion on here.
For what it is worth, amateur RL is thriving, in terms of interest and enthusiasm from fans, we need to bring back the guile and craft, how we do that is for people more clever than I to work out.
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| Quote ="HucknallLoiner"Try doing that with the Aussie defence up and in your face. I want to see more passing too but the defences have got so much better it's virtually impossible unless we go down to 12 men.
We've done it before!!'"
Defence looks better because attack is more predictable. You barely even see support runners now when forwards hit the ball up. Simple way to stop the defensive line getting set early is to offload. If you do that a few times then suddenly defenders not involved in the tackle can't retreat and get set.
I've seen a lot of Aussie games in the past, Origin included, where it's a boreathon for 70 minutes then the team losing suddenly starts actually playing with the ball. Defences suddenly look stretched and disorganised.
I maintain that as long as you can make good ground with 5 hit ups and a kick then that's how teams will play, safe, percentage rugby.
The ball moves a lot more in union because you can't make ground up the middle when big, 18 stone forwards, are set at the back foot of the ruck. You have to attack edges. There's also patterns that are designed to leave props or slow locks out wide defending space.
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| Re RU it's interesting to note the number of ex-RL players who coach defence in RU.
Anthony Farrell & Sean Edwards being two prime examples.
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| Quote ="Old Feller"Re RU it's interesting to note the number of ex-RL players who coach defence in RU.
Anthony Farrell & Sean Edwards being two prime examples.'"
Phil Larder being one of the first with Clive Woodward. Some of the same techniques for holding up the tackled player, thus slowing the speed of ruck ball are applicable from league.
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| Steadman, Tait, Ford, Forshaw, Lowes, the aussie Phil Blake , to name but a few the list is very long.
Eddie Jones used Jason Ryle (?) for the autumn internationals.
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| Ford though was seen as being innovative with back play. Bath pre last season, were known for exciting back play and favouring an open running game. To have him coaching defence in the England set up and Farrell coaching the backs under Lancaster was bizarre.
Looks like Ford Junior is off to Sale end of season. He's bailing out of his contract. Word is he was mightily pee'd off at how Dad was treated.
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| Quote ="DHM"Ford though was seen as being innovative with back play. Bath pre last season, were known for exciting back play and favouring an open running game. To have him coaching defence in the England set up and Farrell coaching the backs under Lancaster was bizarre.
Looks like Ford Junior is off to Sale end of season. He's bailing out of his contract. Word is he was mightily pee'd off at how Dad was treated.'"
A seriously good player if you ask me and one I would love to see play league (though fat chance of that). Sale seem to be splashing out a fair bit right now.
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| Quote ="Clearwing"A seriously good player if you ask me and one I would love to see play league (though fat chance of that). Sale seem to be splashing out a fair bit right now.'"
He's getting there. Starting to make really good decisions and control games very well. There are other clubs linked (Leicester have been mentioned) but Sale does look the likely destination. Bath are furious apparently.
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| DHM - re throwing the ball around, it depends how you do it. Literally passing right to left and back again will do zero against a good defence. What you need is a willingness to do it, coupled with a willingness to accept the risk involved (i.e. dropped balls, intercepts etc). You also need to train to play that way (as Ipswich did in the Qld Cup). Otherwise you'll see plenty of lobbed passes to players standing still.
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"DHM - re throwing the ball around, it depends how you do it. Literally passing right to left and back again will do zero against a good defence. What you need is a willingness to do it, coupled with a willingness to accept the risk involved (i.e. dropped balls, intercepts etc). You also need to train to play that way (as Ipswich did in the Qld Cup). Otherwise you'll see plenty of lobbed passes to players standing still.'"
Agree.
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| Its funny how people sometimes can't see the wood for the trees. The Ipswich side was successful because they played high risk attacking rugby as a group. Following their success a fair few players signed with NRL sides. Most have done nothing, because what made it work was the fact it was a team strategy. It had very little to do with most of the individual players.
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