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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"I certainly wouldn't want too many people to see the likes of JP in the same way I saw Atkinson and co when I started watching in 1981.
'"
I had the same experience with Les Dyl when he came back from his extended Spanish holiday.
Not all players should be like the Jeffasuarus.
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| GH must be confident that Cuthbertson can transform us from our worst finish/position/form in many years to the best squad ever, I'm not so sure
TVOC, when was the last time we lost so many league games on the run?
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| Even in the horror show that was 1996, Leeds never lost more than four in a row so you're probably going back to the 80s somewhere (Dewhirst/Fox era?)
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| Think we lost 5 league games in a row under Dean Lance (year 2000, I'm guessing). That run might well have been broken by a win in the CC though.
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| I agree in general with Hetherington that stability is important for success in sport, particularly our sport, as seen by the general dominance of Saints and Leeds in the SL era. Teams that have a big turn-over of players year-in, year-out have rarely done the business in the short-term. Just ask Salford fans.
That said, stability does not have to mean retaining a virtually static playing roster. The successful Leeds teams have all featured some new faces, either signings or academy players - prompted by the departure or retirement of existing stars (e.g. Buderus, Senior) as well as other players not working out (Griffin, Hauraki etc).
The best way to ensure real stability is to make a minimum number of necessary changes with the most positive effect in a given season. But I am not sure that is what is happening at Leeds, since as Hetherington himself states, 2015 will be the last year to see the golden generation together - implying that 'stability' is merely rhetoric to sell tickets for this season before the inevitable period of instability from 2016 ensues, in which a significant part of the spine of the team will have to be replaced en masse.
So in fact Hetherington's rhetoric of stability is in reality anything but stability, and will do little to build the foundations of a future successful Leeds team. His message deflects attention from the real challenge of managing the transition in the squad and whether he or McDermott actually have any concrete plans in place to make this a success.
Of course we would all laugh if Hetherington came out and said that he plans to sign the Burgii to replace JP & KL, or that the current crop of young players would emulate the feats of the players coming through in 2003-4. While it is likely that some contingency plans for the future of the squad do exist, I cannot help feeling that GH and BM are simply working on the basis that some players will be forced to retire through injury (doing a Senior), and that academy prospects will have first crack at replacing them during the season. Only if this fails will they seek to identify new players to sign, which will invariably mean we end up with more short term options like Aiton for 2016. We will all have to wait and see what unfolds.
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| Quote ="Clearwing"Think we lost 5 league games in a row under Dean Lance (year 2000, I'm guessing). That run might well have been broken by a win in the CC though.'"
IIRC we lost 5 league games at the start and end of that season, with a record-breaking winning run mid-season.
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| Quote ="Tony Soprano"GH must be confident that Cuthbertson can transform us from our worst finish/position/form in many years to the best squad ever, I'm not so sure
TVOC, when was the last time we lost so many league games on the run?'"
Leeds are currently on a five Regular Round game losing streak. The last time this happened to them was in Dean Lance's opening games in the 2000 season. These are the only times this has happened during the SL Era (although Leeds also lost the final League game of the Centenary Season and the opening four rounds of SL1 in 1996.)
Leeds have also had two six League game losing streaks between April and September 1981 (3 under Syd Hynes + 3 under Robin Dewhurst) and another between August and September 1959 which is as far as my result sheet goes back to at the moment covering Leeds' most recent 2,196 matches.
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| Quote ="Exeter Rhino"I agree in general with Hetherington that stability is important for success in sport, particularly our sport, as seen by the general dominance of Saints and Leeds in the SL era. Teams that have a big turn-over of players year-in, year-out have rarely done the business in the short-term. Just ask Salford fans.
That said, stability does not have to mean retaining a virtually static playing roster. The successful Leeds teams have all featured some new faces, either signings or academy players - prompted by the departure or retirement of existing stars (e.g. Buderus, Senior) as well as other players not working out (Griffin, Hauraki etc).
The best way to ensure real stability is to make a minimum number of necessary changes with the most positive effect in a given season. But I am not sure that is what is happening at Leeds, since as Hetherington himself states, 2015 will be the last year to see the golden generation together - implying that 'stability' is merely rhetoric to sell tickets for this season before the inevitable period of instability from 2016 ensues, in which a significant part of the spine of the team will have to be replaced en masse.
So in fact Hetherington's rhetoric of stability is in reality anything but stability, and will do little to build the foundations of a future successful Leeds team. His message deflects attention from the real challenge of managing the transition in the squad and whether he or McDermott actually have any concrete plans in place to make this a success.
Of course we would all laugh if Hetherington came out and said that he plans to sign the Burgii to replace JP & KL, or that the current crop of young players would emulate the feats of the players coming through in 2003-4. While it is likely that some contingency plans for the future of the squad do exist, I cannot help feeling that GH and BM are simply working on the basis that some players will be forced to retire through injury (doing a Senior), and that academy prospects will have first crack at replacing them during the season. Only if this fails will they seek to identify new players to sign, which will invariably mean we end up with more short term options like Aiton for 2016. We will all have to wait and see what unfolds.'"
Excellent post - and with GH confirming everyone was signed up for 2015 is seems any vacancies in the 25 man squad will be filled promoting youngsters.
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| Leeds City Council staff have been offered a "unique opportunity to join players and staff from Yorkshire CCC and Leeds Rhinos at a special civic reception this Monday" through a ballot.
This includes the chance "to mingle with players" and "have a close up view of a special Q&A which will be hosted with players and staff by BBC Radio Leeds presenter Dave Callaghan."
Now, as a LCC employ (and thus entering the ballot) I was wondering if I get pulled out of the hat if there were any specific comments or questions that you wanted asking?
It is meant to last a couple of hours; I wonder how long it would last if you asked the questions that you really wanted to ask..?
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| Quote ="Highbury Rhino"Indeed soccer is a different sport thereby making your use of it for comparison purposes largely irrelevant. In your irrelevant comparison you missed the bit where Arsenal built a new stadium and the bit where they stated to win trophies again. You may be right about them not competing for the Premiership you may also not be...we'll see.'"
The point is still valid - Arsenal have won one trophy in 6/7 years despite stability at the helm - lack of change hasn't proved to be that successful on the field. If you saying the lack of success on the field is because the club spent all the available cash on the stadium so there was no cash for players that could explain it. However that does't appear to be the case - it appears Wenger's reticence to splash out is more to do with the lack of quality on the field. Perhaps that is what Arsenal fans want, relative mediocrity played in a posh ground? Surely that is what the stability has delivered.
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| Quote ="Jamie101"Leeds City Council staff have been offered a "unique opportunity to join players and staff from Yorkshire CCC and Leeds Rhinos at a special civic reception this Monday" through a ballot.
This includes the chance "to mingle with players" and "have a close up view of a special Q&A which will be hosted with players and staff by BBC Radio Leeds presenter Dave Callaghan."
Now, as a LCC employ (and thus entering the ballot) I was wondering if I get pulled out of the hat if there were any specific comments or questions that you wanted asking?
It is meant to last a couple of hours; I wonder how long it would last if you asked the questions that you really wanted to ask..?'"
It's pointless because you'll never get a meaningful answer to anything. The only time you would ever get that is being close mates with a player or waiting for them to retire, release an autobiography and reading it for answers. Otherwise it's all just buzz words and towing the party line.
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| Quote ="Biff Tannen"Whilst i do agree with most of your post, this is nonsense.Aiton had a promising start to the year and fitted in well.He missed a large chunk of the middle part of the year through illness which coincided with the teams spell of poor league form but he contributed well on his return in the cup final.
I would say he was a good addition on the whole although it is looking like he may not be with us next year if a ban comes his way.'"
Aiton is nothing special. We looked a little better with him at hooker but other than that he seems a little weak in the tackle always seems to get bumped off. Had a long lay off, came back a worse player. Don't think his distribution is that brilliant and don't think he takes us around the park as well as some previous hookers. Maybe we have been spoiled Diskin, Buderus and Lunt but Aiton is a significant downgrade. Average hooker at best.
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| Quote ="Ferdy" Maybe we have been spoiled Diskin, Buderus and Lunt but Aiton is a significant downgrade. Average hooker at best.'"
..............and yet hooker is one of the most important positions.
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| Agree with Exeter's comments. This year our two signings were Briscoe and Aiton. Briscoe was in many ways not needed (perhaps a marginal improvement in a position we were already strong in), and Aiton replaced Hood/McShane.
What I don't understand is why GH seems to target so many average forwards (Moore, Griffin, Hauraki, Aiton to a degree) despite the clear evidence that they hardly ever pay off.
It seems sometimes as though the aim is to have a big squad of forwards, despite the fact that the key men aren't genuinely rotated or challenged for a spot.
I'd have thought that we'd have been better both this year and last had we let go of several of our fringe forwards and recruited just one genuine first-teamer, leaving youngsters to fight it out for any gaps that injuries make.
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"What I don't understand is why GH seems to target so many average forwards (Moore, Griffin, Hauraki, Aiton to a degree) despite the clear evidence that they hardly ever pay off.
'"
Maybe he remembers the days when Tony Smith used to be able to get the likes of Wayne McDonald to score 70 metre tries against St Helens an Liam Botham could come on and do a job when we had injuries.
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| Quote ="DHM"Maybe he remembers the days when Tony Smith used to be able to get the likes of Wayne McDonald to score 70 metre tries against St Helens an Liam Botham could come on and do a job when we had injuries.'"
Wayne Mcdonald scored a 70metre try in 2003. Tony smith joined in 2004.
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| Wayne McDonald was outstanding in 2004, as was Danny Ward IIRC TS thought the Leeds front row should be selected for GB at the time. If you looked at the names in isolation You'd probably say we were weaker then than we are now. For me it's the difference in quality in the back row that's the most noticable. 2004 we had Furner, Ali, Sinfield, and Poching, McKenna, and a young JJB. IMO that pishes over what we have now.
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| Plus Senior at centre and McGuire and Burrow as support players par excellence. Simple fact is, a team like that doesn't come along too often.
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| Quote ="FlexWheeler"Wayne Mcdonald scored a 70metre try in 2003. Tony smith joined in 2004.'"
I believe my use of the term "the likes of" covers me here. As in someone like Wayne McDonald that may or may not actually be Wayne McDonald.
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"What I don't understand is why GH seems to target so many average forwards (Moore, Griffin, Hauraki, Aiton to a degree) despite the clear evidence that they hardly ever pay off. '"
Andy Yates?
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| Quote ="Fat Boy"Andy Yates?'"
Add Luke Ambler as well
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| More frustrating is a case like Amor. From the outside it is baffling why Leeds didn't or wouldn't find a space for him.
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| Quote ="Exeter Rhino"More frustrating is a case like Amor. From the outside it is baffling why Leeds didn't or wouldn't find a space for him.'"
I agree, has looked a far better player since he left us, has had his injury problems but his coach has had faith in him and it now shows, and with signings like Moore, Griffin, Hauraki, Ambler, Pitts and the baffling sight of Kirke and Bailey still with us, its difficult to see how a place couldn't have been found for him to develop at Leeds
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| Coaches at clubs with a high demand for performance and silverware don't have the time to bed a player in and let him develop.
Amor was able to do that at Wakefield, because with the greatest respect to Wakefield if he had a stinker it wasn't jeopardising their chances of winning silverware.
Leeds couldn't allow him to do that. It's a major problem when signing players from outside SL - they have to be able to hit the ground running otherwise they're out the door.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"Coaches at clubs with a high demand for performance and silverware don't have the time to bed a player in and let him develop.
Amor was able to do that at Wakefield, because with the greatest respect to Wakefield if he had a stinker it wasn't jeopardising their chances of winning silverware.
Leeds couldn't allow him to do that. It's a major problem when signing players from outside SL - they have to be able to hit the ground running otherwise they're out the door.'"
But Leeds did let him do that...on loan at Wakefield. It was an elegant solution, and at the end of his loan season Amor twice played against Leeds and twice was one of the two outstanding props on the park (along with Peacock).
Mystifyingly, Leeds did not force their option on him and allowed him to stay at Wakefield when he was already fully-formed.
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