Spot on!

Briscoe and BJB scored plenty of tries off Watkins at the start of the season. Wonder how much ball Briscoe would have got had Tony Smith been coaching Leeds this year?

ALOT more

I get your point DHM, and certainly wouldn't argue about the need for a second row with oomph a bit wider, but frankly any decent defence would not worry at all about either Peacock or Leuluai running at them either, no matter how close to the line. That means they don't need to pack the defence up the middle quite as much.

That issue is probably compounded by the fact that Aiton's no threat from acting half either - he played 20 games for not a single try.

Personally, and I know it would be unpopular for any number of reasons, but I'd love to see Hock at Leeds, as he'd provide the sort of punch we lack (not to mention threads a gazillion pages long).

In the end it comes down to structure as well as personnel, and its really odd that a team with anything up to five playmakers on the field at times is unable to fashion a set of 6 near the opponents' line that causes them real trouble. If anything I think it speaks of too many chiefs.

In any event the consensus seems to be that the era of Burrow as sub/ hooker should be over regardless. If he's not breaking games open from the bench its a waste of a bench place.

agree with most of that. In addition I would say that although our forwards make good meters, yhere is more to winning games than eating up the most meters. We dont really have forwards who get their noses through yhe line and get the defrnce retreating or quick play the balls. I think that is a major reason for lack of cutting edge

You're right, there is little threat up the middle (made the point about McShane's ability to crash over from close in earlier). I actually think a big problem with that is the offload game we now don't play anymore. If the forwards up the middle could pop a few offloads it would draw in defenders and create the space out wide. I reckon a big reason we don't offload much is because McGuire isn't the support player he was and we don't have Webb in there lurking either. The outside backs don't roam either. If you could get Watkins or Moon taking offloads up the middle of the pitch for example it would massively increase the threat of any front row. Like I said, you can deal with one guy running no matter how big and strong if you know that's all he's going to do.

Agree about Burrow also. He must now play 7, McGuire, as great as he has been, must be retired.
Get a top class hooker, use Aiton as a relief hooker for him (he does have the strength to defend in the middle).

I think the lack of offloads is more to do with lack of impact the forwards have on the defensive line. If they don't win the collission, its hard to offload. Most of our forwards hit the line slowly, and use leg drive to gain extra metres. We have a lot of grafters in our pack, and that works well in defense, but there is no-one really who threatens the line. Lets hope Cuthbertson adds this element

Totally agree. We need someone who'll hit the line with impact - that's what we're desperately lacking in both the forwards and the halves.

Anthony Tupou is out if contract at the Sharks - now he has had his injury issues, but when he is fit, he runs great lines, hits the ball up at a million miles an hour and has a fantastic offload game. He'd be a great addition to our pack and would give us something we've lacked since Ali left. He'd be a gamble due to his injuries, but he'd be relatively cheap at this stage of his career and the potential positives he'd bring would be massive.

I thought we won most collisions against Cas in the cup final - certainly in the fist half - and barely offloaded once. But I agree, the likes of Stevie Ward never win a collision on attack and I think if he did he would have the sort of skills that would show a great offloading game. Then again Delaney hits the line at a hundred miles an hour, has great leg drive, gets his body beyond the defender often but the ball is glued in his arms.
But offloads need support players and the culture that goes with it. We don't have either anymore.

Gets my backing. He's a very obvious answer to what we're very obviously lacking. But as DHM points out, there need to be a culture of backing up instilled as well.

Not for me.

Sinfield cant drop out to 60m. From a drop out Catalans would have been on the attack.

We just needed to play the ball away and kick.

People don't mind declaring when individual brilliance wins you a game. In this case an unforgiveable error costed us the game.

Not just the game, the season.

I don't agree with that, I cant see any situation in rl where dropping out is favourable to having a full set, if kicking the ball as far down field as you can is the aim then surely that should be done in play after five drives.

It was an unfortunate massive cock up, bad pass bad catch, it's over with now lets look forward to next year.

Not convinced it was that bad a pass to be honest. Briscoe was just too busy worrying about getting smashed to catch it. Took his eyes off the ball, which is unforgivable.

Mind, given some of the service he's had from Watkins in the second half of the season he probably didn't recognise what a ball aimed at his chest looked like.

Don't disagree in general but I also think Briscoe's positional sense in attack is very poor. He stands too narrow and flat a lot of the time, for example Watkins passed the ball into touch in the first half with Briscoe too far in field, had he been stood where he should have been, he'd have been sent clear down the flank.

TBF for all the talk of personnel changes and poor tactics what has cost us most is discipline and sacrificing for the cup.

The latter cost us 4 points vs Bradford and London. Discipline, Sinfield's headbutt cost us a point, Moon's shoulder 2 points and if Hardaker hadn't been banned I reckon IMO we'd have beaten Hudds at home which we lost by 2 after BJB had a 'mare dealing with Brough's kicks.

That's 11 points thrown away through cup sacrifice (not an issue next year) and player stupidity. Even with an "ageing team" and McDermott's tactics we should've strolled to 1st.

Surely after 27 rounds every single team can point to a litany of 'should have beens'.

My only gripe is that Wigan and Leeds are continually paired at Magic Weekend when Huddersfield got Bradford and Cas got Wakey.

Other than that it's two games against everyone and you end up roughly where you deserve.

In a nutshell. There is the over-riding theme that we didn't create enough or score enough points though. Although how any fan can look for solace in that beats me.

But we conceded less than every other team? don't understand why we have won everything based on that fact (sic)

I'd keep McGuire for one more year, if only to teach Hardaker how to be the support threat he was.

I also think we have potential in Achurch, he just doesnt seem to be played to his strengths. He clearly isnt a slouch (as his chase back proved), he also has an offload in him but we seem to be playing him like the new Ian Kirke. How we manage to play a pack with him and Ablett and lack so much dynamism in the middle i dont know.

As for Briscoe, typical of the Brough, Brown, Shenton type player. Looks a world beater playing for a middle of the road side where they play to his strengths and others are blamed for his deficiencies. Briscoe is adjusting to his best being expected every game and no excuses made for him. He looked good earlier season but its clear he lost his confidence. He needs to take responsibility for his own performance. There is still potential for a world class player in Briscoe, but he is 24, has nearly 200 SL appearances behind him and hasnt set the world on fire for 2 years now. If he doesnt step up next year then he might not be staying at Leeds and he wont get another job at a top club again.

We ought to be patient with Briscoe. He's already scored some spectacular tries in important games. He appears to be suffering from confidence issues, not unlike Matt King when he moved to Warrington (admittedly Hull is much nearer to Leeds than Melbourne is Warrington, although perhaps there isn't much in it in cultural terms).

The best way for Briscoe to succeed is to give him time to develop an understanding with Watkins, as well as working out how to bring both of them into games in a more effective way. I suspect the answer lies with our half-backs and lack of momentum from the forwards other than JP & KL, which has never lived up to the quality in our backline this season. The backs can't keep pulling us out of the fire with wonder tries, as Saturday's game proved.

How long do you give them, out of interest?

They have had a full season, and they are both clued up. Their partnership hasn't really improved as the season has gone on.

How long did BJB/Watkins take, that looked seamless instantly. Even this season when BJB has been dropped in from time to time they never needed any 'getting back up to speed'. The partnership just worked. Watkins and Briscoe need to do plenty in the off season and get up to speed sooner rather than later.

BJB and Watkins played together quite a bit in the academy to be fair.

Maybe they could try swapping Hall and Briscoe? Briscoe played down the left at Hull?

Briscoe's worst performances this season were on the l[ieft[/i wing