In terms of comparing the 99 and Current packs JP and JJb/Delaney would imo replace Mathiou and Hay but Kirke wouldn't be good enough to wash the jock straps.

But he's the best of a bad situation. We are better with burrow at hooker than mcshane, but the damage has already been done by the faillre to replace buderus and then lunt.

Have to agree to disagree on that one.I agree with the fact we should have signed Lunt.

Burrow can't pass from DH its either fired into someones face or at their boot laces when we try to play quick at the ruck otherwise its easily read when he runs 30 yds sideways because the defensive line is set.
The best way to utilise RB at 9 is as a replacement from the bench as shown v ST's.
I've no doubts at times he's not helped by lack of runners/options butthat doesn't disguise what he lacks as a 9 the same with Mcshane in that he doesn't always read the situation or similar to RB trys to go it alone far too often and cant do a full 80.
Also how slow and predictable is the outwide play that goes through JP ??
The team are capable there's no doubts about that but since Wakey away we've plodded through games when we should be burying the opposition and last night we got exactly what we deserved and again highlighted the same problems we've seen tie after time this year.

Have to agree hooker is our biggest isue at the moment.I still think we have a great chance to get to OT again even with the current situation if we can get some of our injured players back but that shouldnt mask over the fact that Burrow is a half back who can be used as an impact hooker at best.

Surely Mac has seen enough after this year to decide on if McShane , who is 23 now, is the answer moving forward.all evidence points to no, so we need to move him on and find a better alternative for the sake of both parties.

A fascinating question , for which there is probably no straight forward answer.
Unfortunately you have me thinking which combination of those packs would be the best, I would start off with a young Adrian Morley in my team, I am still mulling over the rest

I don't think that many from Murray era would get into this current Leeds pack and if I had to combine the two for the best of both teams it would be more bias towards this era. The dead certs IMO for that combination would be Peacock, Leuluai, Delaney, Morley & Newton. It'll be intresting to see what peoples ideal combined pack would be!

Just checking, so people would rather see a 52-30 scoreline, soft, limited skilled tries, No defence, no determination in defence and games where refs blow the pea out of their whistle resulting in a lopsided result then the one last night?

There were 2 excellent tries scored last night, one by Lovegrove and Watkins 2nd try which was absolute class off the cuff stuff testing the likes of Sinfield's capabilities and to his credit he came out on top with his kicks.

Some people think the league's not competitive yet in the same breath bemoan this scoreline.

I agree the standard of SL is not what it was..but last night was a 'proper' game. I certainly don't want to see penalty tries, team warnings, sin-binnings and all that crap. You don't see the ref and the result normally ends up how it should be, FWIW if you'd had nicked it, i'd have been gutted but still come on here stating what a tough game it was.

Good luck for the rest of the season.

8.Fleary
9.Newton
10.Peacock
11.Morley
12.JJB
13.Glanville

14.Jackson
15.Farrell
16.Delaney
17.Mcdermott

as it is our current pack i would give fleary the edge just over Kylie who is past his best.I would use Barrie Mac off the bench for the impact factor.So just three from our current day pack would make my side.

Nah the I'd still take the 99 pack. Mainly due to the better hookers in Newton and Jackson.

It's not necessarily a criticism of our current pack, more high praise for the 99 pack. As mentioned Peacock would get in any pack and Leuluai, JJB and Delaney would all be worthy of inclusion. Though, to use a SouthStander.com colloquialism, there is an element of softcockery in our pack that wasn't present in the 99 one. Partly due to the game itself changing since then.

How long have you been watching?

Glanville was a million miles ahead of Delaney as a player, and McDermott was much better than Leuluai. Fleary was only good under Murray, but those two years were still ahead for me.

Delaney wouldn't lace Glanvilles boots, not in any lifetime,

Leeds have to be the slowest side from around the ruck that I can remember.

Burrow is simply awful, absolute momentum killer.

Murray/McDermott combined team:

Harris

Hardaker
Watkins
Godden
Hall

Sinfield
McGuire

Masella
Jackson
Peacock
Morley
JJB
Glanville

Newton
McDermott
Fleary
Farrell

Bit of edge to that bench.

The coach would be Graham Murray, by the way.

Personally I would probably put Blackmore in there with Watkins on wing. We all know Watkins can be a great centre, but he's not really had the opportunity to show it yet, due to under utilising. Blackmore was very good, especially the 98 year, but also 99.

Would also have to get Powell in. He would get in this side now, so why not a combined. Probably drop JJB out, Farrell to start and Powell on bench.

But a good call on the others.

This side would definitely smash every opposing team into submission as it is one mutha of a collection of talented but very hard men

It also has 2 centre's that know how to supply their Wing men with quality ball, Watkins and Hall would score 30 tries each season without a doubt outside these two

Whilst in his prime i still believe that Harris is the most talented player in SL's History, He was almost impossible to defend against

1: Hardaker
2: Watkins
3: Blackmore
4: Godden
5: Hall
6: Harris
7: McGuire
8: Fleary
9: Newton
10: Peacock
11: Morley
12: Glanville
13: Sinfield
14: Burrow
15: Delaney
16: Farrell
17: McDermott

Coach: Muzza

What, no Golden?

... but then I realised that after the game I was going home in Leeds and not back to the steaming cesspit of a sh*thole that is Hull and that made everything all right.

I'll admit to not being McDermott's biggest fan. This is for no other reason than I think he's a poor head coach.

When he was first announced as takin over from Bluey I thought it was a good appointment (although Powell was my preferred choice). We saw what happened to the team when he went to London, and the impact he had. So I thought he'd come in and get our defence organised and attack fluid. Got to say it hasn't happened and left me thinking he's more of a number 2 (in the coaching sense).

We have a team full of top players - that goes without saying. And from what we hear, McDermott knows how to get into their heads and motivate them. I think this is great in the big matches which are intense, but in the weekly rounds it needs more than this.

Since he came in we haven't looked any more organised. Defence has been on fire in patches and and woeful at other times. And very rarely have we seen out attack really on fire and ripping teams open at will. Our passing is static, and players often look like they don't know where they should be or their role in the move. Which leads to a lack of dummy runners and predictable attack.

I'm not undermining KR's defensive effort on Friday, but we didn't really stretch them for 70 minutes. And this is disappointing. For childcare reasons, I don't get to as many games as I used to, but tbh, when I do get the chance to go I don't always want to. This is purely because of the spectacle on show. Our brand of rugby is quite boring and predictable which is sacrilege considering re attacking threats we have. But I'm left wondering what goes on during the week in training because it never seems to improve.

I absolutely love OT and the feeling of winning, but I know in not the only one to think that winning papers over cracks that have existed in our team for years. I really struggle to think of great 80 minute performances lately. And I don't mean where we've blown a team apart, but where we've clicked in attack and defence and looked well organised.

As much as sport is about loyalty, it's also about product. And right now the product at Headingley isn't living up to expectations - but I can't see it changing anytime soon.

On a side note, I thought the tribute to Graham Murray was fantastic, and it brought back happy memories of travelling all over to watch the team. How I miss the old grounds, particularly Central Park and Knowsley Road. That was a team that excited you.

Good opinion given his success, player testaments and backing from the club....

You say this despite back to back grand final wins? I'd suggest that warrants being able to call yourself a head coach.

Does it though? What's the incentive to win every week? Targeting the playoffs is how to win the GF. I don't blame the coach for the shortcomings of the Super League playoff system.

Again refer to my comments on our success. I'd also argue we've played many more good games this season with games like this Hull KR one certainly more of a minority event.

This I can agree with. Its still disappointing losing to clubs like Hull KR.



What?! If winning the title is papering over the cracks then sign me up. I appreciate you want our week in week in results to improve but I struggle to understand the mindset that winning at OT isn't enough.

There in lies the problem - the game is struggling to attract any kind of investment, attendances are dropping, the spectacle on the field for the vast majority of games is poor and insipid. Winning at OT is great but it does paper over the cracks of the quality on show week in week out. I can only remember one really good game this season Warrington v Wigan. Leeds will finish 4th best team over the regular season, they are 7 points and 170 points behind Huddersfield, do you consider that a satisfactory position for a club with so many advantages? Leeds are no better this season than last, some of the other clubs are simply much worse. If Leeds fail to get to the GF - law of averages suggests they cannot keep pulling it out of the bag - how will you then view the season?

Wasn't McClennan's real attribute about getting the team up for the big games?
We didn't play with great style under Bluey's reign.
Brian McDermott didn't get my vote in his first season but he delivered the goods. Last season he delivered the goods again. If the Rhinos go on and win the GF for a third successive season under the same coach surely he has to be recognised as the greatest coach in Leeds' history.
Are you confident about the playoffs? I am. Perhaps I've seen the light. In Brian Mc we trust.
Bring on OT in October.

We shouldn’t blame BMcD for the quality of week to week mediocre performances, we should be congratulating him for his ability to bring a team to peak at the right point in the season.

The standard of regular round games has dropped and will continue to do so until the play-off system is readdressed. The regular rounds are becoming almost irrelevant – as long as one or two wins go your way and you do enough to be slightly better than average you’ll finish in a play-off spot.

This means that the intensity and passion we see in the play-offs is not mirrored in the regular rounds because it doesn’t have to be.

If our head coach is being tasked with winning the GF then that’s what he’ll be aiming to do. Do the minimum needed to get a decent play-off spot then pull the big guns out for the last few games of the year.

This is why we get subjected to the mundane, dull and boring games like the one that we had to witness on Friday night. More and more teams/coaches have realised this so the overall standard of the regular rounds is dropping.

This is having a knock-on effect with gate attendances, corporate investment and sponsorship. Who'd want to invest in a sport that is attracting less and less support week on week?

The RFL need to address the play-off system and need to do it sooner rather than later.


Our coach is doing exactly what he should be doing and for that should be praised – the side effect though is games that I’d wish I’d not bothered taking the time to go watch.

I agree FatBoy, there is a flaw with the playoffs, but I don't agree that McD is doing it the right way.

The players go out to win every game. They want to finish top of the league, not because it gives them easier passage into the playoffs but because it shows them to be the best week after week. Whilst the format of the playoffs allows teams to have bad patches of form and still qualify, I bet McD was aiming to top the table this year.

Our team is without doubt the best team SL has seen in knock out rugby, but I don't think it'll be regarded by the neutrals as one of the greatest teams because we are pretty boring to watch a lot of the time. Has McD really got the best out of our back line this year? Has he shown up tactically to be able to change things? I'd say no!

That's why I don't think he's a great head coach. You see what Anderson had come in and done at the Giants, and I know they haven't won anything and still get pants crowds, but he's got them playing the best rugby in the league.

It's a long season and people won't/can't just wait for the playoffs to see their team start playing. And I don't buy that the team is happy to trudge through the weekly rounds waiting for the playoffs.

It's turning out to be quite a bizarre end of season, after last nights Wigan defeat there is general outcry from the Wigan fans about the teams woeful displays. Coupled with the fact us and Warrington are off form and have major players still injured , that leaves the injury free and on form giants looking like the team most likely to win the grand final.
I still think there could be some shocks and upsets along the way, maybe saints could come into the equation .
Whilst the standard of play at the moment of most of the teams at the top end of the table is dire, it's going to be a fascinating end of season.
You would think that between us Wigan and the wire one of us should produce some sort of winning form.

So therefore a big chance for one of the so called top coaches to step up and motivate and inspire his team, over to you BM a golden opportunity for you to succeed .