Significantly less about 1m a year - plus they have much bigger squads to support given the specific skills required for certain positions.

So who do you suggest? Incidentally we really missed the boat with Furner IMO.

I think GH will spend as little as he can to ensure the profitability of the club - no bad thing in principle. Unfortunately, like in any business, when you stop investing only one thing will happen? and it isn't positive.

Caddick subsidises them personally and it's widely known they don't spend up to the RU salary cap. Only a conspiracy-theorizing loon would think their playing budget is topped up directly from the Rhinos' playing budget. Leeds RL certainly subsidise them in other ways, but as the biggest club in RL Leeds could and would spend plenty more on the squad if they were allowed to (being allowed to would mean they were in fact obliged to spend more). They'll be a little under the cap in normal circumstances I imagine; and this year I can't recall the exact sequence of Diskin/Donald/Cross/Hauraki movements so he could be keeping some more up that sleeve. But these would be in the tens not hundreds of thousands.

Hetherington though likes the salary cap as it is because it keeps costs down. But don't be fooled that pretty much top of his priority list is ensuring a successful Leeds Rhinos team. Since you're obsessed with his obsession with money, it's worth remembering that more than anything else at Headingley it's that which makes the real profits.

Possibly, although the Raiders are going well. Furner is lucky his dad runs the club so I think his position is pretty secure. He would make a great coach IMO - I still think there is some legs in Steven Kearney, who only just missed out to McClennan last time around.

The obvious place to look is Melbourne, Bellamy is the best coach in the world and his protege's seem to learn a lot from working with - not least who is the boss, something sadly lacking at Headingley

The RU Salary Cap is £4M per year, whilst the TV income from the last deal was £54M over 3 years, equating to £18M per year. I don't know the details of the split between the Prem clubs and a parachute payment, but it's conservatively 1.5M per year between 12 clubs.

That leaves quite a gap that has previously been filled by Paul Caddick personally as documented many times. I don't expect that with the playing squad that Carnegie have they are spending anything like 4M, even given the larger squad to cover more specialist skills as you point out.

The point is Leeds is a very small enterprise in the real world 11m is tiny in comparison to normal commercial enterprise - it would interesting to compare the revenue streams of the two main sporting clubs in Leeds - that might actually put things into perspective for you.

The club doesn't have a finite cashflow, Caddick will guarantee the O/D, loans etc but if he were putting money into the Tykes you would expect to see the director's loans on the increase that is not visible on the balance sheet - so I would suggest quite the contrary.

If they have a to support a RU squad with limited funds - Leeds profits are not in the millions - something has to give. What else would you suggest is their next biggest expenditure? You are nieve if you think the success of the two sides are not financially linked. The sacking of the director of rugby suggests the club isn't quite as flush as some on here would suggest.

Kearney is at Parramatta. No chance of him quitting to come here.

David Kidwell and Kevin Walters are Bellamys assistants. Kidwell is nowhere near ready. Walters took Les Catalans backwards at a rate of knots.

I predict MjM is going to have a field day picking holes in all that.

<pulls up chair to watch>

Leeds don't receive full monies - the salaries in RU are higher than RL and they have bigger squads - it is unlikely they can put the playing/coaching set up together for less than 2.5m - Caddick may have put the money in years ago but he stopped when the university took over. Giving it back to GH was the last thing he/Caddick wanted.

On the stand you would have thought with Caddick building it they would have gone for something above basic - it would seem money is even tighter than many on here think.

Lets see shall we - he will obviously have the accounts for the past 3 years to review - he is not the only accountant on here

Kidwell did an excellent job at Souths before he went to Melbourne - he is the next off Bellamy's conveyer belt - not a man to argue with either.

1 season as a youth coach, and 1 season as an assistant doesnt provide you with the experience to be head coach at a club like leeds. Maguire was an assistant for 7 years, working under Bellamy, Maninga and Elliott.

So the Leeds Tykes are not funded by the Leeds Club

"At 31 October 2010 the club had £2.36m in the bank and had lent a further £1.7m to Leeds Carnegie to cover their cash deficit (which I ASSUME we'll be getting back...). It's very cash-rich for an RL club and whilst obviously money will need to be borrowed either from within or without the group it's a decent starting point to the funding."

From the financial statements of Leeds RUFC Limited:

Year ended 31 August 2001 "During the year a loan to the company of £1,237,445 was waived by Paul Caddick (Holdings) plc."

Year ended 31 August 2004 "Caddick group plc have provided further loans to the company in the year of £767,050".

Year ended 31 August 2006 "Caddick Group plc, the ultimate parent undertaking, have provided further loans to the company in the year of £1,120,000.

Period ended 30 June 2007 "At the period end, Caddick Group plc, the ultimate parent undertaking, waived £2,289,506 of balances due from the company"

Year ended 30 June 2008 the company had a net profit of exactly nil as then owners Leeds Met covered all the losses incurred: "Leeds Metropolitan University Higher Education Corporation [paid £1,176,577 in respect of naming rights, advertising and promotion".

Year ended 30 June 2009 as per 2008, the subsidy this year being £892,892. However Caddick Group plc had in between times also pumped in £240,000 of Tetley's-style deferred sponsorship, that being written off over ten years.

Year ended 30 June 2010. These accounts are sat on my desk at work so I can't tell you the figures but, and this may add fuel to your conspiracy theory, the loans that year were stumped up by the cash rich Leeds Rhinos and as at 31 October 2010 Leeds CF&A Ltd were reporting that "the company provided a loan of £1,325,999 to Leeds RUFC Ltd". When the [iloan waiver[/i comes if it is from Leeds RLFC rather than Caddick Group plc I will be the first to chain myself to Caddick's Bentley demanding our £1.4m back.

Oh for Christ's sake, Elliott would be a disaster. Where do you think Brian Mac and Lowes picked up their coaching techniques?

David Furner might be available soon, by the way.

I think the idea that Caddick is personally putting in millions to support the tykes is a fallacy, how many individuals have that amount of spare cash, ie money not tied up in shares/property - Caddick may be wealthy but he is not Mike Ashley or Graham Kirkham.

I think the numbers show he hasn't actually put much money into Leeds over recent years which suggests the RL income is helping to support the loss making RU - this would be entirely consistent with the logical thoughts that the building of industrial units isn't quite what it used to be given the economy.

Did the two million not come from the development of the training facility and the sale of the other rugby ground at Adel?

This is the problem when you get non accountants trying to interpret accounts. The accounts, especially the balance sheet is a snap shot at a point in time - it doesn't mean that the Rhinos have 2m in the bank all the time. August will be a high point it would interesting to see the bank balance in December when the club have outgoing for 2/3 months and very limited income.

If you take the view (as I do) that Caddick views Caddick Group plc cash as "his" cash then you seem to be implying that the Leeds RUFC Ltd accounts are incorrect given they state that he/his company have written off significant amounts over the past ?

Shall I give the AADB a call to launch an investigation?

Look it's perverse that I'm having to attack this from this perspective as I am fully convinced that Leeds RLFC subsidises Leeds RUFC to the extent that we undercharge on rent and management charges and passover of group relief. But the idea that this tinkering at the margins alone is either enough to dig Leeds RUFC out of their loss making pit or that it is enough to mean that the Rhinos have to scrimp and save on their player budget or that Caddick does not then plug the RU gap through his own resources is preposterous.

How much do you think Leeds RLFC takes in season ticket proceeds in advance of the subsequent season? When does the majority of that cash come in?

The end of December is therefore likely to be one of the higher points in the year's cash cycle.

Playing devils advocate here

The club has to stand behind Brian Mac this season even though things are far from rosy at present, time will tell whether or not he can turn things around.

He has been handed a squad of players to work with, none of which he has personally signed, numerous of which are possibly at the back end of their careers, and has been pointed out in other posts our problems started well before Brian Mac was appointed.

Are this seasons poor performances a culmination of what has gone on previously?

Did these problems actually start during Tony Smiths tenure at the club?

We have been a very successful club since 2004, and have won 4 grand finals along the way, but 2004 season aside i can't remember seeing us being as dominant for the whole season.

We have endured poor spells in each subsequent season although peaking at the right time in 2007 to 2009 to win the GF

theirfor is it the coaches fault or the players that we are in this current mess or a culmination of both aided by poor player recruitment?

I would like to mention a rumour which i was told by a current Professional RL coach, He said that there was far too much player influence within the Rhinos club regarding team/club matters and that these opinions have been subsequently acted upon

2004 was a freak, we won the league by a record margin, with a record points total and a record points difference, with record points scored. No-one did it before, no-one did it since. We cant hold up our inability to replicate 2004 as a failure.

How's about Schoey?

Yeah right.



Peacock player coach maybe until the end of the season: he certainly inspires on the field. Obviously more so than our captain.

Dont even joke about it.