For all his offences, name me one incident in his whole career that you think Bailey should have been banned for.

I'm not dissagreeing with you on any of that. Not any of it.

But why bring up the disiciplinary?

It was a flippant comparison with Pryce, who is also disliked for reasons other than his race but also gets called "work shy", "thug", "animal" etc - which according to some appear only to be used by racists to describe black players.

There are plenty of work shy, thuggish white players, and they get described as such.

Anyway, I guess it's just a wind up anyway, since a lot of the posters involved clearly know better.

Think about what you have wrote here.

Seriously.

Can I just add 'in your face McLaren' look how popular the Opta stat thread is becoming now.

Like I said on other page, the clubs pay people to do that job tvoc. It's important, and appreciated. Thanks.

Sometimes TVOCs stats are invaluable.

Other times they're meaningless.

I'll be the judge of when those instances occur.

Not particularly picking on you but that comment does seem to sum up the head in the sand attitude this thread displays.

I went to great lengths to stress that while there is a marked difference between the way Bailey (and Pryce in my opinion) are lambasted when compared to white players with worse records this is not because of overt conscious racism. I also stressed that even sub-conscious racism won't feature for alot of people.

Nor did I suggest that racism was commonly seen/heard on the terraces (though I've heard racist chanting from Leeds, Warrington, Hull, Leigh, Castleford and Wakefield fans in the last few years).

And for the record nor am I suggesting anyone has posted criticism with the deliberate aim of having a go a them uppity darkies.

Its a subconscious action by some to see black players in a certain way and to use certain terms to deride them, the fact that some of us are able to understand the distnction between that and conscious racism or racist chanting, however, does seem to back up your final six words.

It it though, or is that just your leap of faith?

You can no more state that as fact than I can the opposite.

Put that to one side a minute and justify your previous opinion which was,

"I imagine the majority were cautions since he never seems to cop bans"

So??

We're all waiting??????

I would equally condemn any bigots who support(?) the Rhinos.
Since I've never had the pleasure of standing in the South Stand I don't recall the baiting of Vigo.
I did, however, express my disgust at a spectator in the old Paddock making racist comments.
So no I didn't & still don't have any qualms of conscience re Headingley.

For the record I don't dislike Bailey, I don't really think he's dirty (although a little niggly at times) and I certainly aren't racist.

I simply don't rate Bailey as higly as others seem to. I could name 20 props plying their trade in Superleague who I would have in my team before I got to Ryan Bailey.

I'm glad you haven't let a minority dissuade you from attending Headingley.

The Vigo incident was well documented at the time. It followed a fantastic Regal Trophy tie between Leeds and Wigan at Headingley (22-25) where Vigo (a relatively unknown South African born winger, IIRC) embarrassed the great John Atkinson in to retirement. Vigo had responded to some unsavoury chanting from the South Stand by beating his chest (in mock King Kong style) in celebration of his hat-trick and winning try.

On his next visit there was more abuse and a plenty of bananas heading his way. The local fruit and veg shops must have done a roaring trade.

As a footnote, Atkinson (after a change of shift patterns) boosted Leeds that same Christmas by coming out of retirement and helping Leeds retain the Challenge Cup.

fair point. however you see him when we play you or on sky. its the same when we don't rate player A at saints or player B at wigan, we see him maybe half a dozen times a season.
when you watch a player week in week out you get to see the whole picture rather than a quarter of it

Which 20? I'm not looking for an argument just wondered who you would have before Bailey.

Just remember that Bailey is our 3rd/4th prop in this age of the salary cap, please name me 20 3/4 props from SL you would have before Bailey.

That 2nd line is the clincher TS they think if they reel off the likes of Morley,Graham and Peacock etc they've proved a point.

In all honesty they have proved a point.

Tony Soprano's point is also absolutely spot on.

The difference is that opposition fans fail to realize the pecking order of props and the category he will be in. But some people are talking Bailey up so much on here that they come across as though he is first choice. And on that respect Zucchini head is proving a point by the confusion.

What constitutes first choice?

He's been a mainstay of the pack for the last 8 years. Thats pretty much first choice for me, although he's not often a starter, doesn't make him not first choice

He is only talked up when he's deserved it though imo.
Sometimes it can be OTT i agree but he's stood up well this year and for a 3rd/4th choice prop he's done the buisness in strugling team which i personally think deserves the praise he's received.
I honestly don't know how you can prove a point by confusion


He's assuming he's a 1st choice prop so straight away he's very wrong and then the comparison is also very wrong which =WRONG,WRONG,WRONG.
I can't see how that proves point tbh mate.

tackler? he may have "made" 21 tackles but i doubt many of them were one on one, the kid is struggling as a top line player he hides when it's time to take the ball in (hence 4 drives) even if bluey did see him as more of a tackler i'd still want at least 10-15 drives a game from him, especially when our wingers are carrying the ball more than him. he's been ok and yes he has gf winners rings but all good things come to an end and his time as a leeds player should be at an end.

I see yer point bud but there is still a "pecking order" and imo although he is 1st choice 17 he's still behind Kylie and Peacock in terms of starting 1st choice if that makes any sense.

Like Tony Soprano posts, he is 3rd in the pecking order of the props. Peacock and Kylie are first in the pecking order, that doesn't change unless one is injured.

If he was a our front line first choice prop, i.e. Peacock then we would seriously have problems and the level of comparison that the hull poster was looking at would then become relevant.

Come on Leicster, your much brighter than that

First team and first choice are two very different things, If he was first choice at the 3 times in a row champions why has he not played for GB.