I leave the petty name calling to others but Gibson (and in your case Worrall) were/are not up to the standard Leeds need to take them forward and remain a force. I think Ratu may also perhaps fall into that same category although in fairness I haven't seen enough of him to judge fully yet.

The Vulcan Operating Company, you are goody at the statistics and the judgements. We will be payings you 100 Ugandan Shillings per weeks to come and look after our national team statistics. I also makes available my 4th homings for your perusal.

Idi

But we needed a right centre and replacement for Ellis and a replacement for Eastwood!!!!

You did mate and i've no probs with debating and sharing differing opinions with yer!!

I know. No way a squad containing the likes of them could ever acheive any kind of success in this league is there........................................

We did didn't we.

Nobody seems to have told the players we have they're not up to it.

Any kind of success, yes. The kind of success I and the club should crave in this relative golden age (that won't last forever and could be over in the snap of a brittle bone or two) builds upon being Champions and doesn't rest upon it.

St Helens in 2006 could do it, why not a dominant Leeds?

Because we adhere to the salary cap?

Because 2009 is not 2006 and the talent appears to be evening out across the league.

I am not counting any chickens here but if we win an unprecedented 3rd championship would you consider that better than doing a league and cup double in one year?

Regardless of who is at the helm, you cannot doubt the tenacity and sheer will to win of the kids who have come through Leeds' ranks starting I guess in about 2002 and ongoing now (a legacy of Dean Bell maybe, and how many of them have been panned for not being good enough and then gone on to prove everyone wrong by being exactly what [ithis team [/ineeded? Or have moved to other clubs to supplement the income streams. Leeds have benefited from cut price, hard working , enterprising players coming through the ranks, which has enabled them to pay for the world class talent that then makes them players shine.

I may not be the keenest Leeds fan on the block but I have always been proud of how the Rhino's have built success on a foundation of home grown talent and sustained it. The business model is second to none in my book. Everything you see is an improvement on what went before. The ground is being improved by capital expenditure against a balance book in the black, not by begging scrimping and scraping or going cap in hand to the councils.

Yes G, I'll take an extended period of success over a single season's dominance , every time.

An even more impressive stat would be 4 wins in six years (plus one runners up spot). Like you, I'm not counting chickens though.

the words you put in itallics were key and is something the fantasy football fans desperate for multiple showy signings fail to appreciate.

But evidently not good enough for some.

4 league and cup doubles in six seasons would appear to be the benchmark for some.

I think some people think we're Wigan competing against part time players in the Stones Bitter Championship circa 1988-1994.

St Helens in 2006 built upon success? Remind me again who won the 2007 and 2008 Grand Finals?

Did St Helens break the cap in 2006?



Leeds are in the midst of a golden period for them and they should be utilising all at their fingertips to ensure success and yes that includes for me even more success.



Yes I would but I would also consider winning the Challenge Cup along that journey as evidence that Leeds have done all they could do.

I see no merit in underspending the salary cap comfortably, spending within a few K of it without going over would be the impressive part and would indicate a club maximising their efforts (if they can afford to spend what is permitted under the rules.)

If Leeds go on to win the Championship again this season it rather highlights how the comp has gone backwards.

i totally agree about leeds doing the best they can and that includes spending the full cap.
however this leeds side is a very good one and if other teams have stood still or gone backwards then that is there fault.we can only play whats in front of us.
i will celebrate,if we win, this years GF win as much as any other one

although the league generally has evened out, Leeds & saints are still a clear top 2.

This year we are a lesser squad than last year & next year should have strongest squad yet.

Saints this year also never replaced a centre or prop & some senior players have lost form @ the business end making them appear a weaker side than us & their squad of last year.

This year we've got by without replacing ellis with a more consistent lauititi & Smith's improvement.

Why chance it again if we don't have to.

I'd have to look at their squads over those years to have an opinion on that. Perhaps 2006 will be seen as St Helens peak.



Leeds.

Pardon? Could you not look at their results?

Is that how you gauge success? An objective opinion of playing strengths of a squad of players from individual supporters?

I personally feel that Leeds' success has very little to do with their ability to spend. Or perhaps I am wrong, it's an ability to spend in the right areas. £50k spent on a flashy player from another club? Or £50k invested in youth policy. Hmmmm. It's a poser.
But what if the squad we have IS capable of competing in a League comp diluted by the effects of the salary cap?
Perhaps, just perhaps because Leeds' success came off the back of it's internal player development policy and not its' ability to splash out in the transfer market, they are not as affected by a dearth of talent in that market, if affected at all.

But, and this is a big but. If the dearth of talent on the market means that Leeds can then sell it's preferred percentile of quality home grown players to other clubs for an increased premium, generating further income to add to the development pot, then when a bit of top class talent becomes available anywhere in the world then several things happen for me.
1) Leeds have the capital available to spend
2) The facilities invested in are attractive, state of the art and demonstrate the direction of the club. (So hopefully the player wants to come)
3) Said top class talent has a ready made incubator in which to propagate the development of new talent at the club. (You have to believe that Buderus is breeding good things into the current crop)

G1 , luckily for the point I am trying to make, picked up on the fact that I believe that any player in the world that wants to come to Leeds for whatever reason, MUST fit in to the side.

Yes Leeds could spend, and spend big, but [ishould[/i they? I'll leave that to GH and Caddick, they appear to know what they're doing.

Pint of Bass Headingley anyone?

But don't you see, you HAVE to spend spend spend on big name players if you want to guarantee that you will win everything.

Yours in Sport

Dave Whelan and Maurice Lyndsay.

Maybe. It might also highlight that good, hardworking English kids who've been developed in a professional way can match the achievements of more expensive signings.

And more to the point, when and if said good , hardworking English, Irish, Welsh, Carribean, Pakistani, etc etc etc kids do leave Headingley and the Rhino's, they take an education in sport, but seem to be taking an education in a conventional sense too. I have not yet heard (with the exception of money) a bad word said by a departing player about their development and or treatment at the club.

Seems to me that Leed's is investing in the good of the game whilst investing in the good of the club too.

See this is the point where AP would have said "Did Robbie Mears tell you to say that <FX> Guffaw."

Isn't this a poorer place for his absence?

Yes, that is how I would make a judgement on an individual club playing within a competition of twelve as was / fourteen as is.

St Helens may or may not have improved their squad from 2006 to 2007 to 2008 to 2009 but so might their rivals within the comp at a faster rate which is where using results alone could be misleading.

So far this season both Leeds and St Helens appear to have less of an advantage over the rest and have been vulnerable at various points in the season. That in part will have been due to a certain level of under investment by both over the off season as neither are spending their full cap allowance in 2009.

There is a balance to be found, (there has been for a long time now, around the last twenty five years) between your own produced players, acquired British players and acquired overseas trained players.

The balance at Leeds historically (since the time restrictions were imposed) has always been within the limits set. Not next year though where for the first time Leeds will employ a loophole to field seven overseas trained players when the legal limit will be set at six.

Where is the outcry from the Leeds fans supporting the famed Academy route at Headingley? And why are Leeds doing this now?