He may be an exception. However, I'm not sure he was at a similar stage in his career. Hadn't Ashton only had one and a bit seasons in Wigan's first team? Smith has been around a while now, has scored in and won 2 GFs, picked up a Harry Sunderland trophy and is a full international.

I would think the time in the lower league was certainly a bonus for Ashton. Gave him time to learn in a less pressurised environment.

Actually, Noble brought Withers to Wigan (which was surely instrumental in Ashton's decision to go).

It was when Withers finally gave in to being a crock that they signed Mathers.

That was more to do with Noble predilection for veteran players than promising juniors than Uncle Mo.

So, you're saying Uncle Mo likes promising youngsters?

i'm sure the massive pay rise northampton gave him didn't do any harm either

I uinderstood that Ashton wanted an increased contract, hence Wigan showing him the door. Bit like us & Calderwood I guess.
However, my general premise still stands i.e. that for a long time under Lindsay Wigan have preferred to try to buy instant success by bringing in expensive overseas or second-rate journeymen imports at the expense of encouraging their own academy products. The names are too many to mention.
cf Robinson and Brown with Burrow and McGuire. Who knows how the former pair could have developed given time & I'm not saying that those 2 are as good as Burrow & McGuire but I'm sure you get my drift.
Look at the success of us & the Saints both of whom have a policy of developing and managing the introduction of their younger players.
Wigan's academey squad has been generally strong throughout the Superleague era but they haven't made it to the 1st team squad and stayed there.
I hope they do for the sake of the competition and for British RL because the Wigan area is still a hotbed of Rugby league.

The salary cap in RU might be a lot higher than RL, but squad sizes are also bigger - usually in excess of 40.

The top paid player in English rugby is thought to be Carl Hayman the All Black prop at Newcastle at £350k per year. Hardly average Premiership wages. Young internationals like Cipriani and Haskell are currently on £70k but are looking to double that in new contracts.

Of course pay in France, where there is no salary cap is a lot higher, hence Dan Carter could have earnt £650k for seven months if he hadn't got injured.

Isn't it an interesting comment on the English RU game that a piano shifter gets paid more than any piano player. & they wonder why the game's played the way it is.
Who would you rather watch a lumbering prop or a back like Cipriani. For all his faults I know who I'd prefer.

I am not privy to any of that but all I know was Ashton was the incumbent full back and a promising young player. Noble brought Withers across and he took Ashton's place. Ashton headed for the door.

I know nothing of the £'s and pence but you'd be hard pressed to convince me Noble taking Withers to Wigan wasn't a factor in Ashton saying stuff it.

im just curious what people would think of Cipriani as a league player. Of all the Union players people like Simpson-Daniel and Cipriani would be best suited i think. What are peoples thoughts on that? How would Cipriani do as a SO in League?

Ironically Cipriani might be better suited to RL than RU. I'd like to see Andy Powell or Shane Williams from Wales in RL, but finances are likely to make that unlikely to say the least.

I think there are relatively few players who are suited to both codes though.

I don't watch a load of union, but from what I've seen Williams is a classic winger. He almost plays it like league, runs on the ark, powerful with enough pace, always looking to run with the ball and is a supreme finisher. He'd excel in either code.

a different sort of winger to Robinson, but would suit league / union equally as Robinson did in the end



Lewsey in his day would have made a good league centre i think.

All if's and but's

Without question. But I'd say most wingers are different to Robinson. That boy was in a league of his own. How we could do with someone like that to come through at the minute, especially with the recent World Cup flop.

Cipriani can't tackle. Wasps regulalrly move him out of the 10 channel in defensive set ups so that he isn't targeted.

I bet he's had hold of Kelly Brook a few times. Jammy c*nt.

Not exactly alone in that regard though, is he? Sean Long often defends out towards the wing, and he's managed to have a half decent club career.

As for Cipriani, I reckon he'd make a cracking league player. His game appears to be too "off the cuff" at times for union, with it's greater emphasis on territory and posession. Make a break in union and you risk getting isolated, leading to a turnover. Do the same in league and all you'd do is take the tackle and then play the ball.

Saying that, the chances of it happening are Nil, in my opinion.

agreed, interesting debate though imo

While were on the subject, of union stars performing in League, I wonder if Shaun Edwards (Wasps coach and Wales defefence coach) could do anything in this code?

Good call re Powell, I think he'd make a cracking prop/2nd row. Absolutely no chance of that though nor with Cipriano. I wondered about Jordan Crane who was with Leeds before he went to Leicester, probably not quick enough.
I wonder if David Doherty ever regrets his move.
I always thought O'Driscoll would have been great, again it was never going to happen, likewise Carlos Spencer.

i've heard mentioned before Chabal as a prop......dont know what people would think of that.

But the inference from Davids post was that because of Wasps outstanding record then somehow the whole of RU must be a superior game.

I know enough about RU to have an opinion...if thats OK with you



By comparison to SL the game is boring, mundane, less skillfull, class structured, not talent structured.

Lee wouldnt play at international RU level he hasnt been to the right schools.....



Q. Bill Beaumont was the greatest British Lions captain of a generation most capped and a Home Nations winner ..played 30 odd times...How many tries did he score in this record career. ????????



So you need to ask yourself why did he return to such an inferior product.

Bill Beaumont won a world cup?????????

or a test series or the home nations cant remember really



The way they carried on you would think it was the World Cup..


Do you know the answwer to the question???????

I always liked Jim Fallon as a great cross-over winger and was excellent in both codes. Big and powerful, huge attacking threat and hard as in defence (anyone remeber that cruncher of a tackle tackle on big Samoan Wigan centre, his name escapes me). Good scrapper as well (Fev CC semi @ Elland Road

). I know he started at Bath and I believe he ended there as well, didn't he have to stop playing because he risked losing an eye?? Or have I got that one way wrong? I also remember him playing for Richmond as soon as he left Leeds.