That was nearly as bad as using backs for the first 3 tackles, forwards to drive for the 4th and 5th tackle and the kicking, particularly in the last 10 minutes when we were chasing the game

A whole lot of excuses here.

You say Sarginson's carries with the ball were lacking threat. Well I would say his carries fulfilled his threat as he ran good angles, straightened his line, fainted in then out, drew defenders to get Hall over the line. He looked the better centre in both his games in attack and defense.

Moving to your point that only Shenton of the SL centres made more try assists than Watkins. On scrutiny this is misleading as it does not take into account the number of carries each player makes.

For example Shenton made 17 try assists (TA) in 274 carries (C) with an average TA per C of 16.11. Watkins made 17 TA in 327 Cs averaging 20.43 TA per C. Moon made 15/214 = 14.6 average and Cudjoe 15/237 = 15.8 average or Bridge 17/299 = 17.59 avg.

If you apply this test to the top 50 TAs in SL Watkins comes in at 34th place just pipping the likes of Ferres and a batch of hookers with Hardaker in 46th pace with 13/400 = 30.77 The leaders in SL were averaging 8 to 10 try assists per carry.

You say he can put his winger away, well I am not so sure Charnley or Briscoe would fully agree on present form.

You also compare Watkins with Moon in regard to missed tackles. Again this can be misleading as it only records when a defender has hands on then falls off the attacker. It does not record the times when a player leaves a gap either inside or outside and the attacker speeds through untouched or when a player comes out of the line and leaves a gap. So I do not think that Watkins is being criticised for his commitment in the tackle, which he has improved greatly, but rather his positional judgement. As Mr Jennings will confirm.

Your last point about apportioning blame for "his declining confidence" also is hard to fathom perhaps because as you say you are "baffled" Watkins started this year if the best form (and confidence) of his career. He was superb. However he lost form just before the halfway mark (along with several other teammates) and he never really regained his form.

Despite my comments I am a big Watkins fan and really appreciate his great footwork and balanced running. But I do think he should try to run better angles and vary his depth of run and he does rather give the impression of not fully concentrating sometimes. In mitigation he (and Moon and the wingers) do not have the advantage of a Web style full back who has a linking and passing game to create space and overlaps. Hardaker's game is based on physicality and metre making and IMO too often dies with the ball. This is a big problem for Leeds and is made worse because we lack a running creative player in the halves.

If we do not find a creative running player at 6 or 7 then I would be tempted to move Watkins to fullback where he could be a worldbeater like Inglis.

I could see the temptation if we didn't already have an international FB.

Didn't you express concern over his concentration? Daydreaming FBs are generally poor ones.

TBF both Watkins and Sarginson are young players with a lot to learn. Both should have long test careers ahead of them provided they continue to develop.

I doubt Watkins has ever come up against anyone as good as Jennings before and that should be an incentive for him to improve.
I was surprised by Sarginson, he’s improved a lot since he left London where his defence was a problem.

I don’t think either should be too heavily criticised or written off. Once they get more experienced the defensive technique and positioning should improve. Likewise with attacking skills. If I were either I’d be looking to do a stint with an NRL club at some stage so that I didn’t flatline in development by coming up against lesser quality SL sides every week.

Move Watkins to FB? Jesus wept. You use stats to back up your argument, but then say Sarginson was the better of the 2 centres in the 2 games he played, but Watkins was the better centre in the 2nd game according to the stats.

Frankly, the continued use of stats to prove a players ability has become very tiresome. I'd be very surprised if any SL coach used player stats as a KPI. Perhaps they find them useful for missed tackles, but I doubt they have much influence on a coaches opinion.

He kept Inglis very quiet at Wembley last year.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that he doesn’t come up against the very best quality opposition very often unless he’s in the test team and playing Australia and so he'll be required to raise his game above "normal".

That student digs door must have been a soft touch !

Calm down. I only said I would be tempted to move him to FB - the position occupied by many of the games best attackers. I also qualified this suggestion which was made to overcome the apparent problem many have with Watkins not getting enough of the ball, or not getting enough space, or having none to offload etc etc.

The stats I used were for the SL to correct the point being alleged that he was the second best centre for try assists. Please quote the stats that prove Watkins the better centre in the 2nd game?

I see Garry Schofield has been in the press again, pointing out where Steve McNamara went wrong.

You remember Garry Schofield, right? And the stellar coaching career he had at Huddersfield, where his own players went to the board pleading to get rid of him.

According to Schoey, we're "no closer to Australia or New Zealand than we were before." I'm guessing he must have been up all night before the games indulging in his favourite hobby.

I seem to remember Watkins' one on one defence been pretty woeful.....maybe I am old fashioned but that is why I like Hardaker so much at FB. His one on one defence is the best I have seen for a long time and IMO that is just as good to watch as attacking prowess. As others have already stated he aint exactly a slouch in attack either.

No...for me Hardaker deserves the chance to grow more into the role at FB and Watkins to be coached more into the RC position. He still has those damn fine skills as evidenced by his near brilliant (damn that touchline) skill in putting Charnley clear towards the end of the Dunedin match.
If any of the centres should be moved it should be Moon ...into the SO position. That then however begs the question as to who would fill the LC role? Handley?

Moon was tried at half back at Brisbane and it was a disaster - every move we had would have to run diagonally towards the touchline!!

Watkins is a class player - It would appear he suffers because the coaching he is receiving at his club is hindering his development. If he were at Warrington I bet he would be a better player than he is now.

For what it is worth I enjoyed the test matches and I thought England provided credible performances and it does show a team that is improving.

You mean in the way that Tony Smith has improved Ryan "still can't pass" Atkins?

Maybe we could employ a noted rent-a-gob who used (before he was a rent-a-gob) to be the best British centre I've ever seen play for Leeds, to work as backs coach. He doesn't have a great record as a head coach, but maybe concentrating on a more limited brief, based on what he was world class at himself...

D'you think GH would go for it?

Depends if the Town Hall Tavern will do a deal for parties.

I know what you mean. The angles, movement and dummy runners the Kiwis and Aussies use out wide are a level above anything Watkins would face in SL, where only Wigan seem to really come close. You can't pair off one centre against another, they hardly ever mark each other as they tend to attack and defend in slightly different channels. It's the movement and option in front of defenders that cause them problems. In that respect a lot of the England players have much to learn.

Have you been in there recently? Not Garry's type of place at all nowadays

Its a bit like Kevin Sinfield's short kicking game - you can be the greatest coach in the world but if the player simply doesn't possess the skill set there is very little you can do.

Under Smith Atkins is a much improved defender/reader of plays and that part of game is where I would expect improvement under a good coach

If players don't improve as they get older/more experienced there really is a problem. But Atkin's alleged improvement may also be due to having better players around him than he had at Wakefield. He's a player who seems to me (on admittedly limited viewing) to blow hot & cold.
On balance I'd have Watkins every time over Atkins.

Would you say Kevin Sinfield's short kicking game is better now than it was ten years ago? Is Danny McGuire a better organiser than he was ten years ago.

I agree I wouldn't swop Watkins for Atkins either

Yes, I do think that Sinfield's short kicking game is better now than it was then & McGuire is definitely a better organiser than he was then.
But others have caught up with them & both have lost their pace which in McGuire's case is critical. Sinfield was never renowned for his pace.
I think defences generally have improved & the standard across SL has levelled out, whether that is up or down is a moot point.

I have and it’s much changed since Garry’s heyday.

Maybe The Three Legs might be more up Garry’s alley?

The General Elliot, The Regent, and the Prince of Wales would be ideal for him so it's not the end of the world for him.

I thought he held court in the Myrtle and Parnaby?