no, it isnt

Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?

Its not an argument, you are just plain wrong.

It isnt arrogant for a saints fan to say Leeds will easily beat Wigan,

Similarly its not arrogant for me to say David Haye will comfortably beat Audley Harrison

Remind me which team have had their feet up all week and this weekend?

The team that currently have Danny McGuire and Jamie Peacock, key components to their team, on the long term injured list.

So if I say that Huddersfield will easily beat St Helens, that's not arrogant?

no, its maybe a little deluded but its not arrogant.

I wouldn't be so stupid as to ACTUALLY suggest that, but if I was to say it, I would expect a Saints fan to find it arrogant. In the extreme.

Jamie Peacock wasn't exactly needed to defeat Wigan last weekend so not sure that's a particularly valid concern. Player's have already stepped up to minimise his loss and will be rested now for another big effort.

McGuire will be missed from last week but Sinfield will no doubt be tasked to fill in for only the 95th time as the starting stand-off for Leeds. In the previous 94, Leeds have recorded 63 wins, 1 draw and 30 losses which more or less matches Leeds' win record overall in the SL Era. So could be a lot worse.

So thanks for your concern but I'm sure the Champions will manage somehow.

Yet again the mighty Teev is the calm hand of reason that steadies the rudderless ship of $hite.

Respect dude!

Gone off Richards as MOS after watching his level of composure in play off against Leeds..... Tomkins is too impudent.

Morley now for me.

Then he/she would need a dictionary as well.

The fact remains that Leeds over the last three years, Leeds have won three championships, one hub cap and one World Club Championship. However, in all that time, hardly any Leeds players have even been mentioned as contenders for MOS.

Now, even with your Wigan coloured specs on, does that not seem a little strange?

BTW, I have no problem with any of the winners of the accolade in that period.

Hold on, where EXACTLY have I been biased towards Wigan?

I've seen lots of Leeds bias here, but not once have I posted anything biased towards Wigan.

Post 1 - I berate LS16_Rhino for admitting he considers sticking by your team through thick and thin "unintelligent"
Post 2 - I berate Exeter Rhino for offering nothing more than an insult to the discussion.
Post 3 - I berate LS16_Rhino for his ridiculous comment that I'm somehow bitter about our loss to Leeds a week ago. I also reiterate "jonh"'s point that the players vote this award, obviously no Leeds players earned enough votes.
Posts 4 & 5 - I berate "eddiewaringsflatcap" for his ridiculous comments, including a quote from me BERATING Wigan's performance against Leeds.
Post 6 - I explain that I think next week's match is going to be a close affair. Note, I do not specify which team will win, but that the winners may well be exhausted come the Grand Final
Post 7 - Continuing the Monty Python argument.
Post 8 - I explain why it's not a given it's going to be a Leeds whitewash.
Posts 9 & 10 - A short discussion on whether commenting on another team potentially winning or losing is arrogant.

Nowhere have I said anything about Wigan deserving to have 2 players up for Man of Steel, nowhere have I said anything about how Wigan are going to thrash Leeds next week.

So WHERE are these "Wigan coloured Specs" ???

Cripes, it's not like I've even said anything derogatory about Leeds, never mind anything positive about Wigan.

If people actually took the time to READ posts by opposition fans, rather than just assume the usual thinking of "An enemy has posted! ABUSE HIM! It doesn't matter that he's said we're great, he's the enemy, HE'S WRONG! ABUSE! ABUSE! ABUSE!", then we'd all get a lot further in life.

Leeds won last week. JUST. It doesn't matter how questionable it was, the result was a win. Will it be next week? Who knows. You've lost your best player, we've got a terrible record against Leeds in elimination Rugby. We have 100% against you in Super League Grand Finals, though.

We've both won 2 out of 4 meetings this year. The ones we lost were by 1 and 2 points. The ones we won were by 20 and 14.

The form book says we've got a chance, but so do you.

I really don't see what's so "Wigan coloured" about that. Like I said, if it's going to be a memorable match, win or lose, let it be for the right reasons.

As for the Man of Steel, read jonh's post again. The players voted, nothing to do with me, and I can't argue with any of the 3 who are up there. So again, where's my bias?

You CAN'T use the "bias" card when there's no substance to attach it to.

MoS? Mozza by plenty.

Assuming you mean the SL Play-Offs here, right?

In which case, not really.

Unless in your Wigan arrogance you consider a 50/50 record as terrible?

Sequence from a Leeds perspective: =#FF0000L L L L W W W W

Yes, that's 4 losses on the trot in play-offs. That's pretty bad for the form book.

Where's the "Wigan arrogance"? I thought everybody was fed up of Wigan "living in the past"?

The Wigan arrogance is in thinking a 50% win ratio V Leeds in the SL Play-Offs is a 'terrible' record.

4 straight losses in play-offs is a terrible record. We have that, you don't.

No arrogance. Just facts.

I can't believe you're saying I'm arrogant when I say Leeds have the better recent record!

In the SL Era the only area Leeds have the upper hand over Wigan in head to head confrontations is in the Challenge Cup and that is probably only because all four meetings have been at Headingley.

SL Era Regular Rounds - 57% to Wigan

SL Era Play-Offs/Premiership - 56% to Wigan

You still think Wigan have a terrible record V Leeds?

If you want to dismiss the full-time Era has a whole and stick with recent form, as you've already pointed out Wigan have recorded two comfortable wins this season while suffering two agonisingly close defeats.

You still think Wigan have a terrible record V Leeds?

In the play-offs, yes.

Our last play off win against you was in 2003. That year was also very close in the league, 2 24-all draws, 1 win to you by 10 points and 1 to us (the aforementione play-off win, by 1 point).

The teams were very different back then.

Our secret weapon then was the wonderful Mike Gregory as coach. Today we have another Mike in charge, but still, I maintain my point; me saying next week is going to be a hard-fought and possibly very close match is hardly me being arrogant or looking through "Wigan coloured glasses".

I hope we win, I'm sure you hope you win. Good luck, both teams are going to need it.

Oh, and just to make a final point, I did say "in ELIMINATION Rugby" originally.

Amen. Just playing around.

Which were the 4 wins? I remember 2004, 2007 & 2008. We lost 1st round to Wire in 2006, And won at St Helens in 2005. Last year we beat Hull KR and Catalans.

Just the clarify the =#FF0000L L L L W W W W sequence is Leeds V Wigan in the Play-Offs.

The Wigan wins: 1998, 1998, 2002, 2003

The Leeds wins: 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010

__________

Wigan are the most experienced SL Play-Off team (held jointly with St Helens)

Pl 31, W 19, D 0, L 12, Pts For 705, Pts Agst 646, Avg Scr (23-21) 61%

W =#0000BFW =#FF0000L L W =#800000L W =#FF0000L W =#800000L W W =#FF0000L W W W =#FF0000L W W =#FF0000L W W =#FF0000L W W =#FF0000L W W =#FF0000L L W

__________

Leeds come next on the list

Pl 29, W 15, D 0, L 14, Pts For 604, Pts Agst 573, Avg Scr (21-20) 52%

W =#FF0000L W=#800000 L =#FF0000L L W =#FF0000L L W =#FF0000L L L L W =#0000BFW W =#800000L =#FF0000L L W =#0000BFW =#FF0000L W =#0000BFW W W =#0000BFW W



Key:
W - Play-Off Win
=#0000BFW - Grand Final Win
=#FF0000L - Play-Off Loss
=#800000L - Grand Final Loss

Not forgotten the weekend before last already?