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| Until we know who is leaving its impossible to say what we need. The only one we know is definately leaving at the moment is Achurch. Think its nailed on Falloon will go but thats not confirmed.
As a previous poster said, we dont need much once the 10 players who were out last week return so theres no need to panic buy. We dont need a total rebuild we just need bodies back.
A top quality 9 is a priority and a quality experienced half back too would b where i would think we should be looking. I dont see Lilley as the answer to either of those positions.
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| Hooker is the only absolute must. The issue there is probably Burrow, because if we want a genuinely decent player Burrow will have to go back to the bench. If we were being brutal I'd let Burrow go, not because of what he brings to hooker but the defensive chaos and reorganisation that playing him off the bench entails.
I genuinely think its hard to tell where else we're poor because its right across the field right now, and a lot of players are performing well below their capabilities.
The problem with the 'experienced half back' option is who exactly? There aren't many attractive options in the NRL from what I can see, and the last thing we need is to get stuck with an average player for three years just because they were available.
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"Hooker is the only absolute must. The issue there is probably Burrow, because if we want a genuinely decent player Burrow will have to go back to the bench. If we were being brutal I'd let Burrow go, not because of what he brings to hooker but the defensive chaos and reorganisation that playing him off the bench entails.
I genuinely think its hard to tell where else we're poor because its right across the field right now, and a lot of players are performing well below their capabilities.
The problem with the 'experienced half back' option is who exactly? There aren't many attractive options in the NRL from what I can see, and the last thing we need is to get stuck with an average player for three years just because they were available.'"
Hooker is priority number 1, imo we should try get Aiton back if possible, or someone else who is SL proven
All the halves have look poor including Mcguire who was probably the best 7 in SL last year, it is hard to judge them on the poor platform they are getting 90% of the time
If we can get Gale (out of contract at the end of the year iirc) then get him, send Lilly on loan for a year and play him with Mcguire if back in form, or Sutcliffe who would suit playing with someone who takes more responsibility
If we cant then assess Mcguire and Lilly and Sutcliffe at the end of the year, if at least 2 of them dont start looking a lot better then maybe we have to bite the bullet and get some old or second rate Aussie, hopefully only short term
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"Hooker is the only absolute must. The issue there is probably Burrow, because if we want a genuinely decent player Burrow will have to go back to the bench. If we were being brutal I'd let Burrow go.'"
Problem is, if he goes and the new hooker gets injured where does that leave you? So realistically as well as a new hooker you'd have to bring someone else into the squad who can provide cover at 9.
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| Luke Gale and a hooker. Forget about losing any of the back line. They are all on long term contracts
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| Printer - I agree. Its such a key position, and given that your hooker is supposed to defend up the middle, also one where you have to have a reasonable third choice available if needs be. Its one reason why I personally wouldn't mind someone like Luke Briscoe being kept on, as he provides a lot of utility value. You can also make a case for saying the club shouldn't have let Robbie Ward go until/unless the next junior was ready. I suspect the answer is that they thought Lilley could fill in, as they tried him there at the back end of last season.
In any event the balance of the squad needs looking at, particularly if we're light on in terms of quality juniors. When everyone's fit we seem to have a lot of average forwards again.
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| Someone who can coach the middle lads to take someone's legs. A decent hooker who can defend the middle is also required
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| We need a Hooker now not next year. Falloon although injured did nothing when he played !
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"Problem is, if he goes and the new hooker gets injured where does that leave you? So realistically as well as a new hooker you'd have to bring someone else into the squad who can provide cover at 9.'"
We didn't have Burrow last week, or a proper hooker, but we looked better as an organsised defence than we have. So not so sure on that.
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| Quote ="Gotcha"We didn't have Burrow last week, or a proper hooker, but we looked better as an organsised defence than we have. So not so sure on that.'"
Helped that we weren't trying to hide McGuire, Burrow and Lilley at the same time, so we could have entire starting pack defending in the middle with a centre, half and winger on either side. Enabled us to get numbers in the tackle and control the collision, which gives time for the rest of the defence to get set and organised.
Still not sure how anyone at the club thought Hallas was going to be big enough to make it as a prop though. Amazed it's taken until half way through his third year in the Academy before he's been tried elsewhere.
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| Blake Green from Melbourne Storm is what we need plus a hooker who can distribute and tackle.
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| I think we'll go for Clarke at hooker but we desperately need an organising half back, preferably one whose vocal and can be the leader on the pitch were missing. Sutcliife isnt a half back but i think would go well at loose with stevie ward in the second row. Ward tackling is badly missed, He hits hard and rarely gets broken. Just hope he comes back form injury the same player. I hope this season doesnt do too much damage to Lilley. Ordinarily a run in the first team so young pays dividends later on but playing in this beaten side may do more harm than good.
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| How many of the golden generation remaining - McGuire, Burrow and JJB - now wish they had opted to retire with Sinfield and Peacock? A big black cloud on their careers if Leeds go down this season.
I'm not convinced that either McGuire or Burrow should be considered essential in the current circumstances. The problem of making too many wholesale changes in one go seems to be much less of a risk than keeping the status quo, which is pretty terrifying. Even if we stay up, we look set for at least one, probably two, transitional seasons before we're capable of challenging the top 4 again.
At what point does Kallum Watkins stop being an automatic selection? Some of his defence of late has been appalling for an elite player. At least he is young enough to be part of something again if/when things get better.
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| Quote ="Exeter Rhino"How many of the golden generation remaining - McGuire, Burrow and JJB - now wish they had opted to retire with Sinfield and Peacock? A big black cloud on their careers if Leeds go down this season.
I'm not convinced that either McGuire or Burrow should be considered essential in the current circumstances. The problem of making too many wholesale changes in one go seems to be much less of a risk than keeping the status quo, which is pretty terrifying. Even if we stay up, we look set for at least one, probably two, transitional seasons before we're capable of challenging the top 4 again.
At what point does Kallum Watkins stop being an automatic selection? Some of his defence of late has been appalling for an elite player. At least he is young enough to be part of something again if/when things get better.'"
JJB is finished. I love the guy, and he's shown amazing strength of will to come back from his last injury, but his legs aren't there and he's gone at this level.
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| Quote ="rhino phil"I think we'll go for Clarke at hooker but we desperately need an organising half back, preferably one whose vocal and can be the leader on the pitch were missing. Sutcliife isnt a half back but i think would go well at loose with stevie ward in the second row. Ward tackling is badly missed, He hits hard and rarely gets broken. Just hope he comes back form injury the same player. I hope this season doesnt do too much damage to Lilley. Ordinarily a run in the first team so young pays dividends later on but playing in this beaten side may do more harm than good.'"
Assuming you're referring to Daryl Clarke what possible reason would you have for thinking that he would leave Warrington?
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| Quote ="Asgardian13"Assuming you're referring to Daryl Clarke what possible reason would you have for thinking that he would leave Warrington?'"
I would tend to agree - especially if Warrington deliver on their undoubted potential this year.
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| Quote ="Homer Simpson"We need a Hooker now not next year. Falloon although injured did nothing when he played !'"
Falloon is not injured! The club have discovered he is absolute garbage and it is better to hide him behind an injury cloak than admit they made a horrendous decision in bringing him over. FACT
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| Quote ="leedsnsouths"
If we can get Gale (out of contract at the end of the year iirc) then get him'"
Nope, he is contracted till the end of 2017.
Doesn't mean we won't sell him for a few quid though.
The thing is - why would Luke Gale want to leave a club coached by a trio of half backs and who develop players so well in this position? Look what's happened to other other so-called star halves who have been excellent at Cas and moved on to be dross elsewhere.
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| Quote ="craigizzard"JJB is finished. I love the guy, and he's shown amazing strength of will to come back from his last injury, but his legs aren't there and he's gone at this level.'"
He's running around like a headless chicken. One minute he's flat out the next he's watching play going past him totally gassed. Once the legs go the mind follows, he can't concentrate. I would rather he made 30 smart tackles than charge around all over the field (leaving holes behind him) to make 50+.
Still for dumb defence I think we are setting new standards this season. Watch Achurch when Dwyer scores first half. When the ball is played he's set to the right of Ferres who is marker, on the line (exactly where the try is scored). He then charges sideways around behind Ferres and is 5 yards up the pitch to Ferres's left while Dwyer walks over through the hole he left. WTF was he doing? The whole team is running in every direction when defending. It's absolutely bizarre.
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| Quote ="nottinghamtiger"Nope, he is contracted till the end of 2017.
Doesn't mean we won't sell him for a few quid though.
The thing is - why would Luke Gale want to leave a club coached by a trio of half backs and who develop players so well in this position? Look what's happened to other other so-called star halves who have been excellent at Cas and moved on to be dross elsewhere.'"
Because no matter how bad 2016 has been for us, Luke Gale has more chance of winning trophies at Leeds than at Cas. I reckon we'll grab Powell aswell. Money talks.
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| Quote ="Stevosfalseteeth"Because no matter how bad 2016 has been for us, Luke Gale has more chance of winning trophies at Leeds than at Cas. I reckon we'll grab Powell aswell. Money talks.'"
I fear you might be right.
However, it's well known that Powell still feels aggrieved about the way he was treated at Leeds, as do Gale and McShane. Would they go back? I'm not sure...
I think you are perhaps wrong that Gale is more likely to win trophies at Leeds than Cas. Nowadays, this thing called the salary cap stops teams from just buying trophies and looking at your current squad a complete overhaul is needed. Although I am sure Leeds will re-emerge, given performances this year the threat of relegation is real (although I can't see any of the championship clubs doing well in the middle 8s, it is guaranteed that one SL club will be relegated or in the £1m game). Even in the immediate future, Cas are still in the cup and only a run of wins away from making the top 4 (though I don't think we will).
At the moment, I suspect it will be more like rats swimming from a sinking ship than a clamour to join the club at Leeds.
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| There is a disease that infects Southstander, a bit like athletes foot, you think it's gone and then in summer it flares up again. For some reason there is the belief that the only reason we don't have a player in our team is because we haven't decided we want them. All we have to do is put a shopping list together, Clarke, Gayle, Powell, etc. and add them to our cart, click "purchase" and the goods will be delivered.
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| Quote ="DHM"He's running around like a headless chicken. One minute he's flat out the next he's watching play going past him totally gassed. Once the legs go the mind follows, he can't concentrate. I would rather he made 30 smart tackles than charge around all over the field (leaving holes behind him) to make 50+.'"
He's been guilty a few times this year in goal line defence of flying out of the line to close down a non-existent threat, leaving a huge hole for a player to stroll through and score. Usually followed by standing with his hands on his hips wondering why nobody was able to cover for him.
Galloway was doing the same last night. It's like they know their legs aren't quick enough to get to where they want to be, so they have to sprint up the moment the ball is played and make their best guess
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| Quote ="Exeter Rhino"
At what point does Kallum Watkins stop being an automatic selection? Some of his defence of late has been appalling for an elite player. At least he is young enough to be part of something again if/when things get better.'"
Never understand this rubbish about Watkins. The same gash is said of Hardaker. There is no doubt, with the expectations we have that both players have been a let down this year to what we expect, and what know they have in them. However, both have still been way above most of their peers out there.
The number of tackles Watkins is having to do for us this year is massive. You don't see other players purely playing centre making as many as him. That defence each game then effects your attacking side. Our weaknesses with the defensive structure is forcing Watkins to make that high number of tackles. For me he is a complacent player, who comes across as head not in it, and simply has not progressed to the level he should be. But his defending is not something I would be bagging, as without it I think we would have had even more problems this year.
There is much bigger problems with this team than that.
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| Our centres are defending near the posts. Last night Keinhorst had McGuire and Burrow outside him and not a second row in sight. Watkins clocked up 16 tackles by half time. We look better on the left because Ferres does run wide, but Delaney doesn't and JJB doesn't. Then of course you have Burrow who once again demonstrated he can't pass to his right.
The guys who have the most effect on a game are the ones who touch the ball most often and connect plays together. Hooker, halves, FB, ball playing forwards like Cuthbertson did last season. Outside backs can be the difference in a tight game (Hall's two tries in the CC final against Cas are an example), but we haven't been close to being in a tight game for most of the season. And that's the pack and the halves.
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