Saints forwards - 137 carries, 877 metres, Avg 6.40m.
Leeds forwards - 116 carries, 661 metres, Avg 5.69m.

One can be forgiven for cringing when talking about things like completed sets and errors, etc, but here goes...

Saints - sets 41, completed sets 34, incomplete sets 7, set completion 83%, errors 9, missed tackles 16, clean breaks 10, offloads 8, penalties conceded 7.

Leeds - sets 40, completed sets 28, incomplete sets 12, set completion 70%, errors 15, missed tackles 24, clean breaks 3, offloads 8, penalties conceded 7.

I don't bother with statistics I just use my RL ometer

Leeds current reading is 78.42% nessness

HTH

Statistics are seldom entirely revealing on their own. However, when the circumstantial evidence is telling you your forwards are getting a beating and then this is backed up by statistics, your forwards are probably taking a beating. You can't play the much-loved champagne rugby off that kind of platform.

It's noticable that our back row forwards never look like running a good line and punching a hole. Look at Wigan and compare their back row forwards to ours.

Harsh on Ablett is that

One of the first thing I wasvtold about rugby was that it's won and lost upfront, you are always likely to struggle behind a beaten pack

Leeds need to play it simple and get back to simple rugby, 3 hard drives with the forwards and then spread the ball. Clearly current tactics are not working.

Leeds don't currently have forwards...

The problem is 3 hard drives goes nowhere so you have no platform to attack - add to that the two slowest centres in the league and you have a problem.

With Peacock, Leuluai and Ali playing you should be making plenty of ground forward with 3 drives. Leeds always bang on about how good McGuire and Burrow are, they don't seem to be able to control the attack.

It's become a bit of a cliche, but very few halves play really well behind a beaten pack. I've seen Andrew Johns do it, but not many others spring to mind.

your forwards will be ok this week, your only playing Rovers.

Who we can't seem to beat for love or money.

It's the biggest myth ever that one.

Happened hundreds of times over the years. Just people prefer to trot out the same old line.

How did Myler ever become a world record fee for a youngster? Why did Huddersfield pay out a shed load for Brough? How did Danny Orr get to Wigan after been the only stand out at Cas at the time? Why is Jonathan Thurstan regarded as the worlds best scrum half despite not playing for teams dominating games?

They all stood out, that's why despite playing behind packs who were beaten by the oppossition.

If the side you're in are really diabolical then you are bound to stand out amongst them if you have some talent. Orr did what exactly at Wigan? Myler? Overhsadowed by Briers and Monaghan. I haven't seen enough of Brough to say how well he has done this year.

The fact remains that it is extremely difficult for a half back to control a game if his forwards are not going forward. It's also not ideal to go wide if you are not attacking a retreating or disorganised defensive line. Good halves pick their moments to take advantage of disorganised defence and know when and where to attack. In that department Burrow and McGuire have been exceptional over the years. But if you are on the back foot, with slow PTB's there is little a half can do apart form defend well and wait.

Sort of half agree, stand out players can play behind a beaten pack but also having a dominant back does help the half backs.

Being.

They didn't did they? Wasn't he ran out of Wakefield just as he was Hull and Cas?

Perhaps I phrased that badly. It may be possible to stand-out by showing flashes of brilliance. However, in terms of controlling games, how many games did Myler control at Salford? Their win/loss record wasn't all that fantastic. The trick is then to get to a team on the front-foot and show that you offer more than flashes of brilliance. Thurston has done that for QLD and Australia, adn that season when the Cowboys were going really well a few back. Myler has so far failed to do it (IMO) at Wire and duly slipped down the pecking order there. Orr also failed to produce much at Wigan, although their pack wasn't all that and a bag of chips for much of his stay. Brough is now playing behind a very big, nasty pack and is thus finally delivering on his potential.

Burrow and McGuire can both produce moments of magic out of nothing, but only really get control of attacking sets consistently when the forwards lay a platform.

Nope. £100k and loaning Danny Kirmond to them for the season.

He is paying them back with good performances this year, and a kicking game!!

and all his gambling debts paid off which was £30k.

alledgedly

From the Giants club perspective though, Surely it was pointless signing a speedy half back who could end up at any time with 2 broken knee caps i suppose?

I think alot of sports men in all sports have far too much time on their hands and spend it in bookies