He should never have been left one on one really. "t rex" (

) has been putting a fair few defenders their backsides this year. He's a bit of a beast.

I asked this a while ago, but if someone can give a definition of "International Class" then it would make these debates a lot easier.

As for Sinfield, "a ball playing back row forward" (who just throws lots of passes hoping some will stick) is about as far from an accurate description of him as I've ever read.

The term just doesn't make any sense in relation to Rugby League, where all but 3 international teams are comprised primarily of players who, with the best will in the world, will never be NRL/ESL, let alone 'international class'

They would if the Aussies didnt cherry pick the best for their own team.

Chicken and Egg really. Personally I think for the good of the game residency should be tightened up, and that way we'd get a lot better from the pacific island teams

Darren Lockyer - simple

As for throwing passes - my point was if you throw enough - and boy does he throw a lot - some will come good - that is different from saying he lots of passes hoping some will stick. For everyone that comes good someone is on the end of a hospital pass.

Thats the game. You don't get negative points for bad passes. Its the ones that come off that count.

There's no way he can be a halfback if he tries to take control of the game and make looks at different passing options to try and open up the game. What is he thinking of?

The point was what makes an international half back - it is about execution and the quality of that execution. You only have so many opportunities if your half back wastes them through poor options then it makes your job a lot harder. Lockyer wastes less opportunities and his execution is second to non that is what an international standard half back is required to do.

Saturday will be an interesting evening to compare their respective merits.

If "international class" is defined as being as good as Darren Lockyer, there are only a couple of players taking part in this tournament who are international class.

Absolutely feeble.

Unless there's more than one guy called Darren Lockyer then it's pretty much just him isn't it?

I'd given both Thurston and Cam Smith the benefit of the doubt.

Don't forget Benji Marshall. It's just a pity he didn't come over for the tournament...

But there not called Darren Lockyer?

What is it with Birtish fans? English players perform to excellent levels in our domestic competition and they're denigrated because they can't do it on the international stage.

Then they actually do it, and regardless of accent, reputation or ancestry Sinfield has played much better at 6 so far in this tournament than Marshall or Lockyer and that is dis-regarded.

Sal paradise is simply gooey eyed about anyone Antipodean regardless of what they do or don't do on the pitch.

We must agree to differ - Sinfield has had one good game so far - he wasn't brilliant against Wales, poor against Australia - out played by Lockyer - but good against NZ.

As I said it will be an interesting to see if he can up his game and play better against Lockyer than he did at Wembley.

You asked for an example of an international standard Stand off I gave you Lockyer - I would have thought that was pretty simple really - obviously not for you



So let's turn this discussion round a bit - if we agree the Aussies are the strongest side - which of their players would you consider real top quality and which players from either England or NZ would get in the Aussie side.

For me
Slater, Inglis, Lockyer, Thurston, Scott, Smith, Gallen are top quality players

From NZ only Adam Blair would get in that side - Marshall/Thurston its a close call

England - Graham maybe Ellis maybe

In this tournament I think you have only 10 true top quality players

Based upon the performances in this tournament - and that's what is relevant here - then Tomkins, Hall, Sinfield, Graham, Ellis, Westwood and Roby have been at least as good as anything they have faced.

Would agree re this tournament. Westwood for me has been the pick of the backrow for me, not easy overshadowing Ellis. I think he gives too many penalties away but dont think you can take the aggression out of his game.

Not suggesting he is a world beater but JJB has impressed for me and has been a good bench man.

No, I didn't ask for an example of an international stand off. Obviously plain English is too complicated for you. You even quoted my post, but didn't read it. Then it's pretty par for the course with you.

No. He asked for a definition of international class. Lockyer is no more a definition of international class than Osama Bin Laden is a definition of political Islam.

International class is a very subjective test and can be different things to different people.

You asked for a definition - Darren Lockyer - look at his qualities that defines what an international stand off should be - that leap of comprehension is obviously beyond you - to quote you that is par for the course with you - it is a pity i can't type slower you would be able to keep up.

As I said his qualities define what an international stand off should be - it is that obvious - however if you can't comprehend that just say so and I will go into further detail.

It is like saying how do you define a great artist - just look at Monet's paintings, just look at a David Hockney it is so obvious - just watch Darren Lockyer play and that is all the definition of what an international stand off is you need

No, it's not. Your reasoning is sloppy and your arguments are wrong.

Monet's paintings do not define a great artist - they are merely examples of the work of a great artist.
For someone with little or no knowledge of art, or with low aesthetic values they would define absolutely nothing.

Darren Lockyer displays the qualities of an international player, but that is not an definition of international class.
If you want to engage in constructive debate, you really should be a little more concise, cut out the category errors, and not expect others to follow your fanciful 'leaps of comprehension'

Oh, and by the way, you still haven't provided a definition of 'international class'