"Desire" shouldn't ever be an issue here. If any one player wants this so much as a tiny bit less than any other player on the pitch, he shouldn't be out there. 3 wins/losses in a row shouldn't be a factor - plain and simply it's the biggest game of the season on the biggest stage against your biggest rivals - that's all any player should need to want this more than anything - especially after all the niggle betwen the two sides in recent games.

I am tempted to say something along the lines of "If both teams play to their best ability, Leeds win", because I genuinely think that Leeds at their best are better than anyone in this country, although in St Helens case, not by very much. However, I don't think it's possible for two opposing teams to be 100% at their best at any one time - part of playing to the best of your ability is stopping the other team playing to the best of theirs. So, whoever is able to nullify the strengths of their opposition wins.

This for me is by far the hardest of the 3 recent finals to call. It could, and probably will, be a very close game, however, I could quite easily see either team winning by 18-20+ I just hope whatever happens that it's won fair and square by one side, so there can be no "so and so should have been sent off, or so and so's try should/shouldn't have been alllowed" arguments for months. If the officials do their job properly, and the best team wins, then so be it, whoever that might be.

Having said all that, last year I didn't give Leeds a chance in hell, and they won. This year I really do think they can win. This worries me.....

Pretty much spot on. However even Saints at 100% will mean at least one fumbled ball from Meli or Gardener. It's Leeds ability to take advantage that will make the difference.

From memory, Sinfield's kicking success record in Grand Finals.

2004: 4 from 4
2005: 1 from 2
2007: 6 from 7
2008: 4 from 4

Overall 15 from 17 (88.2%)

I think Leeds will win by 10-16 by pulling away at the end but it will be tight.

simplistic view but they have scored less than 20 points in the last eight games (going back to 25th July) - over the rhinos last eight games (granted including a couple of big scores), if my sums are right, the rhinos have averaged 37 points.

1 Brent Webb
2 Scott Donald
3 Lee Smith
4 Keith Senior
5 Ryan Hall
6 Danny McGuire
7 Rob Burrow
8 Kylie Leuluai
14 Matt Diskin
10 Jamie Peacock
18 Carl Ablett
11 Jamie Jones-Buchanan
13 Kevin Sinfield (C)

12 Ali Lauitiiti
16 Ryan Bailey
17 Ian Kirke
19 Luke Burgess

Drop out:

21 Simon Worrall
23 Kallum Watkins

IMO

1. Paul Wellens, 2. Ade Gardner, 3. Matt Gidley, 5. Francis Meli, 6. Leon Pryce, 7. Sean Long, 9. Keiron Cunningham, 10. James Graham, 11. Lee Gilmour, 12. Jon Wilkin, 13. Chris Flannery, 14. James Roby, 15. Bryn Hargreaves, 16. Tony Puletua, 17. Paul Clough, 18. Kyle Eastmond, 23. Maurie Fa’asavalu, 24. Andrew Dixon, 28. Matty Ashurst.

Ashurst and Dixon to drop out at a guess.

That would do for me if all are 100% fit

1 Brent Webb - - - 1. Paul Wellens
2 Scott Donald - - - 2. Ade Gardner
3 Lee Smith - - - 3. Matt Gidley
4 Keith Senior - - - 18. Kyle Eastmond
5 Ryan Hall - - - 5. Francis Meli
6 Danny McGuire - - - 6. Leon Pryce
7 Rob Burrow - - - 7. Sean Long
8 Kylie Leuluai - - - 16. Tony Puletua
14 Matt Diskin - - - 9. Kieron Cunningham
10 Jamie Peacock - - - 10. James Graham
18 Carl Ablett - - - 11. Lee Gilmour
11 Jamie Jones-Buchanan - - - 12. Jon Wilkin
13 Kevin Sinfield (C) - - - 13. Chris Flannery

12 Ali Lauitiiti - - - 17. Paul Clough
16 Ryan Bailey - - - 14. James Roby
17 Ian Kirke - - - 15. Bryn Hargreaves
19 Luke Burgess - - - 23. Maurie Fa’asavalu

Drop out:

21 Simon Worrall - - - 28. Matty Ashurst
23 Kallum Watkins - - - 24. Andrew Dixon

why have you bolded some of the players?

ones he hasnt been in touch with wanting a cuddle off

sorry Frosties

I edited it now.. Its for comparison and how I think they compare. IMO.

The ones I have left blank are the ones that I feel compare the same.

I went with how they played against Wigan, according to Skysports.

fancy doing another one now without bias, that shows gidley, puletua and wilkin highlighted?

Poor try of banter there. Try again some other time

Webb Wellens
Donald Gardner
Smith Gidley
Senior Eastmond
Hall Meli
McGuire Pryce
Burrow Long
Leulaui Graham
Diskin Cunningham
Peacock Hargreaves
JJB Flannery
Ablett Gilmour
Sinfield Wilkin

Kirke Roby
Lauitiiti Puletua
Bailey Fa'asavalu
Burgess Clough

But comparing players one for one is meaningless really, I just wanted to see who would actually come up on top IMO.

Can you do it again in the positions they are likely to play, i think you had Pryce against Hall and Long up against Danny, in fact i think you missed gilmour out at centre

It has been done again on positions.

1 Brent Webb - - - 1. Paul Wellens
2 Scott Donald - - - 2. Ade Gardner
3 Lee Smith - - - 3. Matt Gidley
4 Keith Senior - - - 18. Kyle Eastmond
5 Ryan Hall - - - 5. Francis Meli
6 Danny McGuire - - - 6. Leon Pryce
7 Rob Burrow - - - 7. Sean Long
8 Kylie Leuluai - - - 16. Tony Puletua
14 Matt Diskin - - - 9. Kieron Cunningham
10 Jamie Peacock - - - 10. James Graham
18 Carl Ablett - - - 11. Lee Gilmour
11 Jamie Jones-Buchanan - - - 12. Jon Wilkin
13 Kevin Sinfield (C) - - - 13. Chris Flannery

12 Ali Lauitiiti - - - 17. Paul Clough
16 Ryan Bailey - - - 14. James Roby
17 Ian Kirke - - - 15. Bryn Hargreaves
19 Luke Burgess - - - 23. Maurie Fa’asavalu

Drop out:

21 Simon Worrall - - - 28. Matty Ashurst
23 Kallum Watkins - - - 24. Andrew Dixon

Your positions are wrong

I don't think any stats from the season matter, with the possible exception of the goalkicker. Having said that if Saints put the ball down under the sticks every time it won't matter.

I'm more nervous than I was in 2004 (which is saying something). I'll admit now that I haven't been able to watch a Leeds GF live since 1998, when I was there. I have real trouble watching even league games live on TV, I can't release the tension like I could when I used to live in Leeds and go to all games. I'll do what I usually do, Sky+ it and check the result at 8pm. Last year I had no choice as I was flying to Japan, I just got mullered on the plane and then made everyone jump in the queue at immigration in Tokyo when I finally got my phone to connect.

It's great to be talking about the game, over the last 3 years there has been nothing between Leeds and Saints, it's a shame we have degenerated too often into slagging matches (I know- I'm being very hypocritical as I've done as much as anyone). Having said that, I don't believe Leeds have been given the credit they deserve since the 2004 season. I think it's been unfair to judge the league positions at the end of the regular season as a measure of the best team (sorry Mr Wilkin, you are just plain wrong), the unequal fixtures have not made for a level playing field, but you also have to accept that the GF is the way we decide who are the Champions, and the fact that ever team and coach knows this at the start of the season means that until this year a top two place was every coaches target to increase your chance of getting to Old Trafford.
The stats show us that only one team has won it from outside the top 2 and that teams finishing 1 and 2 are about equal for victories. If we decided who were Champions by finishing top after the regular rounds then coaches would demand an even fixture list (more like we have now) and would have their teams peaking at different parts of the season.

It's clear that many in the game are reluctant to give Leeds anything other than grudgeing respect, while heaping accolades on our nearest rivel. Our miserable performance at the MOS awards, etc. are an obvious indicator that Leeds are seen as an organised team lacking truly brilliant individuals, performing above their capability in the playoffs against a superior Saints side.
Time and again we are given the example of the Challenge Cup failures, without taking into account the difficulty of peaking at the beginning of the season for a WCC, for an ealry cup game against Saints (time and again), and for the playoffs. I believe we are the only club to win a WCC and a GF in the same season.

Having spent 20 years watching a team that had no say in pretty much anything in the RL world, I find myself nervous because Leeds can make another piece of history and record a third successive GF win.

There I've got that out of the system, now I can try and chill out for a couple of days. My lad has a match on Saturday, I'll probably be just as nervous about that.

I'm not sure that's the case but my memory is naff so I'd have to look up who won what so far as us and Bradford are concerned, but it's too late at night for me to be bothered!

Superb Mr Moustache. You've summed up my thoughts perfectly well and much more eloquently than I could've.

Couldn't you equally say "time and again Leeds have been given credit for winning one game without taking into account the difficulty of playing additional rugby to win the Chalenge Cup and finishing top of the league."?

FWIW Leeds are the best side in the league by a mile this season, something that hasn't been true of Saints or Leeds over the past few years, so credit where it is due - terrific team you have at the moment, frightening to think of Buderus and Eastwood in it next year