Then I suggest you're not very good at reading because that is not what it says at all.

Then why is McShane having such an influence? Why did Diskin have such an influence in our title winning season of 2004?

Something Peaock said Diskin was oneof the best at.

His defence is outstanding. Why do you think I overlook that?
This is where we differ. It's not tennis. I want to see the team acheive success, not brilliant individuals. This isn't the 1980s.

G1 - You've just applauded "Not sure why people are talking about Diskin", then when Sal has mentioned Buderus' role at the club, you've compared it to Diskin's?!



He's gone mate, the sooner you realise it, the sooner we can move on.

I know he hurt you, but time is a healer.



P.S. I miss Scott Donald.

Perhaps we could start an "ex-Rhinos Anonymous" support group.

tvoc could join representing Jodie Broughton.

Any other takers?

I miss Rob Ackerman's shoulder charges.

Me too. I had thought that the presence of Buderus would do little for McShane's development. Happily, I was wrong; he seems to have learned quite a bit and, for me, now has the makings of a very good hooker.

I miss Jim Fallon

G1, my reading skills are fine thanks, I guess we'll just never agree.......
Disko = past
Buderus = present
McShane = future

I'm pretty happy with that

How has he shown he's a failed half back? He's played the odd game here an there in the academy at half back but I'm pretty sure hooker has been his 1st position since we signed him.

These days a hooker's role is more like a 2nd half back anyway.

I miss craig innes

I miss Bobbie Goulding. The last good out & out scrum half we had (Andy Gregory doesn't count). Shame for Leeds that he smashed up Dougie's car...

Pretty much agree with that.

He joined the club as a halfback and didn't make it in that area. He's making a good fist of being an attacking hooker, but his defence (although improved) still leaves a fair bit to be desired.

With regard to hooker being a second halfback, Buderus doesn't play like that, nor does Roby, who are the best two hookers in SL. It's team dependant, and Leeds already play 1, 6, 7 and 13 as ball players.

Shallow much?

I'd prefer to see a well knitted team play together, for eachother and try their hardest to beat the opposition. Perhaps I'm just a bit too ideolistic



I don't think Buderus' impact upon the team sometimes isn't rated enough, that said, I don't see anything much more than the quality Diskin provided when with us. To compare Diskin at Bradford and Buderus now is ridiculous. I think the combination of Buderus and McShane is better than Buderus and Diskin because they have a contrasting game style which complements eachother well.

I don't think we've seen particularly good value for money with Buderus should he be on a huge wage, however nobody does know what wage he is on so we can't really comment.

True he did but Leeds always identified him as a Hooker when playing him in the Academy sides, That doesn't make a player 'FAILED' in that position it means the club feel the players potential is better suited in another position.
Defence still leaves a fair bit to be desired

He's only missed six in Super League this Season:

Paul McShane: Tackles 152 (6 Missed)
Danny Buderus: Tackles 319 (21 Missed)
Matt Diskin: Tackles 374 (18 Missed)

Does that make Matt Diskin the best defensive Hooker we had at Leeds

Agree completely re not failed because club identified his best position

McShane is new teams haven't yet worked how to nullify him, he comes on as an impact player when the forwards are less fresh. The proof of the pudding will come over the next two years - oh and he has worked with an ex Aussie hooker for the last three seasons

Are you seriously suggesting Diskin's passing from the floor is as good as Buderus? not even you believe that.

We will never agree - when I go to a game I want to be entertained, I want to see elite players doing elite things - if the team wins great. My frustration this year is not about winning it is the abject quality of the play.

I used to really enjoy watching Iestyn because he could stuff that would simply defy belief - I would rather the Saints semi in 2007 loss than a win a low quality game like some of the wins this season any day

Agree regarding the buderus vs diskin debate.


However I do to games to be entertained and see special players do special things, but also a team without superstars can be great to watch when they click.

I would rather win a crap semi final desplay rather than lose a great classic semi final

That's what makes the value argument particularly laughable for me. And I guess whether he has lived up to expectations depends on what your expectations were really. If you believe he walked on water when he played in the NRL then you'll probably be disappointed. I'll just content myself that I enjoy watching Buderus play week in week out.

Bored of this now.

True but it won't stop till buderus leaves.

Even then it will probably a buderus vs diskin debate over who had the most influence on mcshane

I don't have a problem with Buderus at all - he is a damn good hooker. I DO have a problem with people downplaying Diskin's 10-year role at the club as though he was some kind of Kirke-standard hooker.

I also have a problem with people who say they like to watch star players doing flashy stuff and less about winning. Had that for my first 20 years watching Leeds - no thanks.

It is not about flashy stuff - it about quality on the field for me - fans will only go and watch a dour winning side for so long - even the CEO realised that - fans want to be entertained.

I have seen you repeat this twice now. Where are these posts you talk of? Is anyone downplaying Diskins 10 year role? where?

I think people looking at things a little more with an open mind, rather than blinkered specs, can see that Diskin had reached his end life, and really shouldn't have even had the opportunties he had last season. Why can some not differentiate between that and what he did prior?

I don't see anybody putting down Diskins efforts/performances previous to last season, which at times were superb. Just the fact that it was clear he was finished as a top class hooker. And more to the point realizing that we had a player also in the hooking role who was substantially better than he was.

Interesting that Diskin stated he was leaving because he wanted to regain the England number 9 role. Of course it was laughable at the time and quite clear it was Leeds clearing out, but where is he in the pecking order now? He's further down the ladder now than he was when playing back up at Leeds.

Somebody on this thread has clearly stated that Diskin was at best average after his injury in 2004. That's rubbish. It's also very clearly implied by a number of posters that we would definitely won the GF in 2009 with Buderus at hooker rather than Diskin.

So when would YOU have ditched Diskin? I don't have a problem at all with Buderus being the one chosen to continue with after the failed Diskin/Buderus rotation we had in 2009.

FYI, according to today's RLW, Buderus will be leaving Leeds for a return to Newcastle next season. If that happens and assuming we win sweet FA this year, Buderus can be added to a whole host of big name players that were fun to watch but in the scheme of things where the object IS to win things were abject failures.

I'm not sure why you'd think the above is somehow blinkered. I'm not sad Diskin has left, and wish him well at the Bulls.