Errrrrrm maybe because he’s played a lot of minutes at 9

Errm... yes this is true but the point I contested was the silly claim that " he has zero pace and couldn't skin a rice pudding"

You chose to take my quote out of context. Perhaps you should read the whole of my comment regarding tackle busts, metres made and metres per carry which are all better than Walker.

The number of tackles he’s made is irrelevant to him being able to ‘skin’ anyone and further irrelevant because he’s played a lot in a position where you make lots of tackles. You tried to use a completely irrelevant stat to embellish the picture you wanted to create, not out of context at all. You should have compared the number of DH passes or marker tackles too just for balance.

Trying to highlight an individuals stats against another is a very limiting way to assess their comparative value in the team. That is taking information without context.

It is limited, but I think Juan's been fairly consistent in trying to raise the issue of double-standards, with some players seemingly immune to criticism (Walker) whilst others get slated (Golding) for similar issues.

Once the dust has settled on this season and we wait for next year we could have a thread devoted to one player/position at a time and what people think of them moving to 2019 and beyond. Starting at full back should get it off to an interesting start.....

But JC uses stats to reinforce his Coaching acumen mate.

It`s a difficult one.
As I feel Golding is the better defender and Walker possibly the better in attack although both have made errors.
I`m sure Walker is an excellent prospect and I also think the same about Golding with the right coaching.
On another note I would not like to see JJB go round another year the same applies to Delaney.
Average players in our squad over the years have been made to look good by the quality of others around them.
Every team has that.
But when the quality goes you either replace them with the same quality or you buy inferior players and end up like we have this year as the average players in our squad are shown up for what they are.

Ultimately I feel both Walker and Golding are good players who need to be nurtured and accommodated in consistent positions. I'd hate to see them follow the path of homegrown players with bags of potential who have held the full-back shirt in the past, such as Lee Smith and more recently Liam Sutcliffe.

Both players have had their ups and downs...

Golding struggled to begin with, but a few games into last season I was satisfied for him to be given the full-back role. His defence was immense, but while their were glimmers of promise on attack, I would have liked to see him bag a few more tries when we were winning more regularly. Since the FB position became contested with Walker, I think Golding's attack has improved a bit, but some of the defensive weaknesses seen in 2016 have also crept back in.

Walker looked amazing coming into games at the end of last season. His step was reminiscent of Iestyn Harris with pace, and he managed to pull off some real defensive heroics. At this point the decision to give him the FB shirt over Golding seemed to be a no-brainer. We finally had a player who, given time, looked like he could be as good as the departed Zak Hardaker. Unfortunately, Walker hasn't really hit the same heights this season. Defensive errors have crept in, much of his attacking threat seems to have been nullified, and he is coming in for a regular bashing.

ATEOTD, neither looks amazing right now. Walker arguably has more potential, being younger (let's not revisit the DOB debate!), but he still needs to develop physically, and show that he's more than an end of 2017 wonder. I suspect if both had been able to have a longer run in a winning side they'd be a lot better for it.

It will be interesting to see how players develop under Furner. Not just youngsters like Walker & Golding, but more established players. Comparable to how Holbrook brought on the youngsters at Saints but improved players like Makinson & gave new leases of life to has-beens like Wilkin.

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This for me is the most pertinent point, we are jusfdging two young players playing in a team with zero structure and zero confidence, lets see how they go next year.

For me Walker is the better player and prospect though

I hope Furner comes in early, has a strong look at the structures of the club and decides accordingly what to retain and what to bin.

There can be no half measures taken with the team or back room staff, we’ve been in this hole twice in 3 years and it’s just unacceptable to keep papering over cracks and basking in faded glories.

Agree 100%

I would'nt describe Jjb or Delaney as "Average" both have been major contributors to our success Jjb more so.
Both are now too old & banged up to be retained as 1st 17 players imo & i hope both retire but neither were average players imo.

How much of that is Sinfield's role given that GH said;
"He will handle all first team player promotion, retention and recruitment moving forward and oversee our coaching staff management and appraisal. Kevin will also have control of the vital link between our academy and the first team working with head of academy coaching Rob Burrow."

I would hope that when Furner arrives he weighs and measures what is required with recruitment and what he thinks he can turn round in coaching.

Once this is done, I would expect him to then use the link with Sir Kev to hammer out what he wants/needs, how badly and when. It would then be Sir Kevs job to go out and achieve these or maybe even turn round and say we cant/wont do that.

I would expect that until Furner arrives this is purely conjecture as until he sees the scale of the job, weighs it up and hammers out a plan WITH Sinfield / GH et al that were all in the dark.

What I would say when MM came in at Wigan, he went from top to bottom of that club and made sure all age groups, coaches and teams were all pulling in the same direction and singing off the same hymm sheet. This is what we need at Leeds. Weve been far too disjointed for too long.

I would agree that this is essential but would see it as Sinfield's role not Furner's.

I agree and I would be shocked if he isn't already looking at that, he has said there is a ton of work going on in the background

I would see this as a dual role.

Furner to set the standards required and Sinfield to make sure that they are not only achieved, but maintained.

You are right, Sinfield is going to have his hands full with this and ATEOTD its his responsibility to make sure they are attained.

I agree with your agreement. My original post was aimed at tempering those who were willing a root & branch overhaul by Furner, only 2 months after hailing Sinfield's appointment to do just that.

Furner and Sinfield need to work together to define the playing style and standards that the club will aspire to, regardless of which team within the club. They need to work out a series of actions and KPI's to measure the performance against the defined standards and have an action plan to get us to the right level. The action plan should include anything from conditioning, to coaching methods, to player recruitment and retention. Different people will be responsible for individual parts, but Sinfield should be responsible for the whole.

It's called management.

Agreed. Look at Cas as a great example. Powell has brought in a great philosophy of playing rugby in the right way since he took hold of the club which was a bottom half SL team of journey men and miss fits when he took the reigns. He identified a style he wanted to play, got the players in he needed to play it and stuck by it and look at them these days. I certainly have the patience with Furner and Sinfield if there is a clear indication we are building towards something on the field of play and get away from this 'off the cuff' play what you see nonsense we had under mcdermott.

'Off the cuff' is polite for pretty clueless.

I was going to add that but thought i would wait for someone else to project it



To be fair that style works, as it did for us in massive games, when you have the playing staff to do it. When you don't, well the evidence has been there for all to see.

I'd actually argue "off the cuff" isn't "off the cuff". To play that style of rugby you need to first be able to at least hold your own in the forwards, and generate quick ptb's. This comes by design, both in conditioning and application of technique. What people often call "off the cuff" is actually the selective application of particular tactics and then a flood of support for the ball carrier.

What Cas do so well is play the kind of attacking structure where Gale has three (or more) truly viable options (not people half d jogging up to the line) and then he selects the one that the defence will find hardest to deal with given their position and numbers for that particular tackle. To do this you need a very fit, disciplined (in terms of position and line of run) and committed pack/backs and a smart half who can disguise his play until the last moment.

We are a million years away from this with any of our halfback options, or those coming in too I think.

We need to go for simple percentage structure which won't be exciting but will give us a platform to build from as we recruit better quality players so we can play more "flashy" stuff

Ok Mark maybe JJB and Delaney were more than average but not in my opinion quality.
Didn`t I hear somewhere that Sinfield had been talking to Furner for over 2 months now about player recruitment and what was needed for the team well before the announcement was made?
Let`s hope that was a frank honest chat and we look to spend as much of the cap as we have available.

I agree with the last sentence we need quality additions.