Brent Webb told me that Keith Senior died 5 years ago and they just warm his carcass up for match day.

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That was worth the coffee nose rinse!

Heard a rumour that Lauitiiti may be retiring even though he signed a new deal, as like Donald.

What was your opinion on the strength of the the Leeds squad assembled by Gary Hetherington for the 2010 season.

My opinion was that on paper it was the best seen at Leeds since 2004.

Waiting for results to determine the strength of a squad (in comparison to previous years) relies on all the other teams faced to stand still which they're unlikely to do..

Seems like Donald has set a precedent for antipodeans to bail out on their contacts by allegedly retiring from the game.

the bulk of the side is fine.for me 2 or 3 new bodies would freshen things up a bit

Re Lauitiiti: If he does I'm sure, just like Donald, it will have nothing to do with his non selection in the semi-final and/or final.

If that be the case then we have a lot to thank "Leeds greatest ever coach" for.

There's another I am reminded of, 3 months into his tenure Mclennan was so described (not by me I hasten to add). So, with Leeds greatest ever coach and Leeds greatest/strongest ever squad I am left scratching my head as to why we're struggling to finish 4th (maybe 6th) and getting walloped in the CC final.

Unless, of course, the perceived wisdom of those on here who don't share my well thought out opinions is somewhat lacking. Surely not?

I don't form opinions based upon lists on pieces of papers. I leave that to the statisticians.

I attend the games, watch them and form my opinions based thereon. It's an approach I cautioned many of you to adopt.

My opinion is this 2010 vintage is a pale shadow of the 2009 vintage featuring players like Ashley Gibson and Simon Worrall contributing to a LLS and a GF. Players many deemed not good enough or sexy enough compare to their exotic sounding replacements, Delaney and Eastwood.

I thought this was a very strong squad - on paper it looks it - sadly games are not played on paper.

Peacock, Bailey and McGuire apart few of the senior players have played anywhere near their potential. It appears a season too far for the likes of Webb, Kylie, Burrow, Senior, Ali, Donald, Diskin. Which is all the more puzzling that GH has resigned them for next year

Added to the development at Wigan and Warrington - an unknown at the start of the season - and this side looks positively pedestrian in comparison. They appear almost punch-drunk i.e. they know what they want to do but they simply cannot execute.

Not that I personally said such about McClennan, but to anybody who gives a well thought out opinion, I would guess that the fact that you are talking about a time frame of 3 years would quite obvioulsy be good enough reasoning for that. It doesn't take much to think about without the need to scratch an head.

I dunno, maybe McLennan has taken the side as far as he can? Leeds got the change of coach right last time. McLennan came in and freshened things up. It now looks to me as if that perhaps may need to happen again.

I think the coach and playing squad are fine.

It's an overhaul of most of the supporters that is needed.

No, it appears you prefer to wait until after the event, I think that covers it.

Spot on. Amazing how any one willing to give an opinion is roundly abused, yet the ones doing the abusing come up with nothing until after the event.

So going by the season so far you think some fans are wrong to be suggesting we could do with "freshening up"?
Fwiw i too thought it was the strongest squad we'd had for a while especially depth wise but did'nt expect that to be tested from week 1 and to be losing 2 or 3 players a week.
Plenty of things to be considered when assessing our season thus far and i'm sure we all have differing opinions on the whys and wherefores but that does'nt make any one fan right or wrong imo.
I think personally that the older players like Senior ,Kylie and JP have played too much because of the injuries preventing them getting rotated and we've also relied too much on squad players like Kirke.
I hope we'll ad at least 1 Prop/forward of some description just to share the work-load and allow us to rest players like JP.
If Ali retires it'll be a shame because i personally was glad we'd retained him then we'll need to add another one imo and also give Pitts more gametime.

My own thoughts on the season so far are that we have done well under adverse circumstances to get to where we are.
The start of the season for any team winning Super League is very stressful trying to peak for a game against a team likely to be superior, in the WCC. To have had this burden for three successive years must then start to take its toll on having a proper off season break and starting the new season with just one objective. The workload for this plus having to suffer a quagmire of a pitch for about the first 4 home games will inevitably tell on the players and must have contributed to some extent on the number of injuries we had early doors.
My view is that it would be beneficial not to have the WCC to worry about next year - let Saints have that burden. I also think that, although it makes no logistical sense, there may be some advantage to the players if we could have some pitch improvements brought forward in the grand Headingley Devlopment Plan.

Do you have a link to any of this abuse?

My position was made very clear when these "Greatest/strongest ever squad" threads appeared. It was a ridiculous discussion to even have. Titles should be bestowed upon players/squads when they've been earned on the field of play, not in the minds of statisticians and list makers before the season begins.

Not an unreasonable position nor is it abuse of anyone who wishes to bestow such accolades pre-season, would you not agree?

Fair point mate but from my own p.o.v it was'nt a "title bestowed on them" just posting an opinion that i thought we'd assembled our strongest squad in a long time and did'nt mention anything about greatness etc etc.

Where it is the same fans that said this was the "greatest/strongest ever squad" then yes, I think they're wrong.

Where it is fans that have not said this previously and are saying it as a knee jerk reaction to the cup final defeat then, yes, I think they're wrong.

Would those same fans be saying the same thing had Saturday's result been in our favour? I doubt it.

And it illustrates their lack of knowledge about Rugby League and sport in general. It's all on the day, something TVOC has said many a time. Another day, the same opponents and it might be us that conquer. Would Saints fans have dismantled their squad after 2007 when we beat them comprehensively in the GF? A squad that went on to play in the next 2 GFs, win a CC final and a league leaders shield.

I'll give Gotcha credit. he's maintained all along the squad would need shaking up next year and he's not saying it as a reaction to Saturday. I may not agree with him but he's not saying it purely as a reaction to Saturday.

Let me illustrate further consistency of beliefs that are not reactionary. Who has maintained that Kirkes aggression in the collision was inadequate all year long? Me. Was this illustrated on Saturday? Yes. I was asked why I didn't start a thread slating other player's performances. Because it wasn't needed. Bailey's display, as an example, was an aberration of his season long form. Kirkes was an example of his.

All good and valid points.
I've also said all year that next year will be one too far for Senior and maintain that opinion and his usual standard of performance is dwindling imo but i still think we started this year with the strongest squad we've had for a while.
What i will also add is that no-one has the ability to see "into the future" but all we can react to is what we are seeing at that moment in time and i think with Eastwood and Donald going and the fact that players like Kylie,JP and Senior will be a year older the squad will need adding to.
Now don't get me wrong i'm not saying sack 6/7 and bring 6/7 in but i think it'd be good for fresh faces to be added and hopefully Brian mcdermott will add some freshness to things.
The Cup final has stunned many of us and alot of the reaction imo has been emotional as well as angry but come on mate even you must of been shocked by that performance and can see something needs adding.

I was shocked by our performance. I was not shocked by our defeat nor was I shocked by Warrington's performance.

There was one fresh face that could have been added Saturday that would have made a huge difference. He was sat in the stands guiding Warrington and he was abused (on here) and wanted rid of (on here) by many of the self same posters now crying out for further change.

What shocked me most on Saturday was how little I actually cared at the end. Did I want us to win? Yes, desperately. However, the moment the game was over my shoulders were shrugged and it was off to the pub.

There's no guarantee it would of been different with TS in charge he said himself he was ready for a change when he left and Bluey has hardly been a failure mate tbf.

And IMO there wouldn't have been. As I have said previously, the coach can only go so far with the resources at his disposal.

But I like this debate, at least it is more open minded.