And just because players could potentially earn more elsewhere doesnt mean that the wages paid at Leeds aren't fair. Other clubs may be willing to pay higher than market value to secure the services of a player.
From the outside, what can be said of Leeds is that whatever structure is in place is working in ensuring we have a balanced squad with quality spread across the park, rather than 1 or 2 superstars and then the rest of the team gash.
Players have left, who at the time I have wished would have stayed, players have come in that I have sometimes doubted would add anything, however, over the last few years I have seen the best rugby played in my 25 years of watching Leeds. So Mr Hetherington and co are doing it right, no matter who thinks it is fair/not fair.

Nobody I work with knows what I'm paid, my Wife and the the three guys that signed off on my salary are the only people who know - bar the Revenue (although they don't seem to know either accurately judgeing by the number of times I have to corect my tax code). Nobody on an internet message board knows what I'm paid either.

I think there is a lot of guessing going on here, it's like watching a re-run of Play Your Cards Right.

Quote ="rhinoms"I wasn't around these parts then so i can't be expected to remember such post Am i correct in saying that he signed for the same money originally offered? www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/l ... .912323.jp'" The agreement nearly breaking down was never about money, it was the length of the contract and a couple of clauses. Hetherington went back on the deal he verbally agreed long long before Ellis was allowed to put pen to paper. That is why Ellis nearly went to the Bulls, especially as Wakey were pushing him in that direction as it was a better deal for them.

Quote ="rhinoms"I wasn't around these parts then so i can't be expected to remember such post Am i correct in saying that he signed for the same money originally offered? www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/l ... .912323.jp'" The agreement nearly breaking down was never about money, it was the length of the contract and a couple of clauses. Hetherington went back on the deal he verbally agreed long long before Ellis was allowed to put pen to paper. That is why Ellis nearly went to the Bulls, especially as Wakey were pushing him in that direction as it was a better deal for them.

Nicely retrieved. Can I look forward to you backing up this comment in a similar fashion?

You showed it didn't you?
The "i know what i'm worth" paragraph and my ability etc etc.
Quite clear imo ="pay me what i think i'm worth or i'm off" and he did!
I've already said in reply to dannys post about him been offered apparently a £25k a yr take it or leave it deal i think that's maybe a little low but i still stand by the opinion that the club offered him what THEY thought he was worth to them and i'm happy with that.
An excellent ££ move to Wigan engineered by Howes and his client good luck to him but we hardly struggled without him.

Leeds replaced Calderwood (2005) with Donald (2006), both played under the same coach (Smith), with the same right centre partner (Walker) and the same right sided half-back (McGuire).

Calderwood played one fewer game than Donald but to keep it simple we'll let that stand, although obviously with the extra game Donald had an extra 4% of gametime to increase his tallies.

Donald scored =#FF000010 fewer tries (=#FF0000-59%)
Donald had =#FF00009 fewer try assists (=#FF0000-900%)
Donald made =#FF0000435 fewer metres (=#FF0000-21%)
Donald made =#FF000013 fewer carries (=#FF0000-5%)
Donald made =#FF000040 fewer tackles (=#FF0000-35%)
Donald made =#FF00006 fewer offloads (=#FF0000-86%)
Calderwood made 9 fewer dummy half runs (-12%)
Donald made =#FF000033 fewer tackle busts (=#FF0000-165%)
Donald made =#FF000015 fewer marker tackles (=#FF0000-136%)
Donald made =#FF000017 fewer clean breaks (=#FF0000-131%)
Donald missed =#FF000010 extra tackles (=#FF0000-45%)
Donald made 6 fewer errors (-43%)
Donald conceded =#FF00002 extra penalties (=#FF0000-40%)

I've left off the kicking stats although all were in Calderwood's favour.

2006 was arguably Leeds' poorest of the last seven seasons.

do these stats mean that calders was a better player than scotty for the rhinos?
in your opinion tvoc,and as an expert of stats,do you believe that stats like these can be used to prove which player was better than which?

You mean this one:

Rhinos exit for try star Calders - YEP - 15th June 2005

[iCalderwood explained: “Being a Leeds lad, I have been very proud of playing for my hometown club, especially experiencing Grand Final and World Club Championship success. But I believe in my ability and value as a player. It has been a major decision to turn down the offer, especially when I have enjoyed being part of a new era of success for the club and, particularly, the fans. Whatever the future holds from 2006 onwards, I can promise the Rhinos supporters that I will continue to give 110 per cent on and off the field for the rest of this season as we chase Challenge Cup and Grand Final honours.”[/i

The one where Calderwood spoke to the press =#FF0000after the contract negotiations had been terminated by the club. The one where he is explaining to the Leeds fans how proud he is to play for the club and how he would continue to give 110% for the remainder of the season.

The one where you decided to say 'fook him' (on the pretext that Calderwood was trying to negotiate through the press - which he wasn't anyway)

no answer to Sam Buca on Twitter from Luke.

I'd ignore him too.

The stats shown there compare the Leeds right wing's contribution in successive seasons. Their relevance broadly depends on whether they appear to support your opinion or not. It's always interesting to view how posters react.

The same ones who claim that stats don't matter are usually the first to seize upon those that appear to support their viewpoint.



Stats (it seems to me and I'm no expert by the way) prove nothing of themselves.

My personal opinion re: the Calderwood / Donald comparison is that Leeds lost more than they gained. Although it can't be ignored that for whatever reason the Calderwood that left Leeds has not exactly reappeared elsewhere either.

Lee Crooks also springs to mind here, post his Hull career.

I am sorry Gotcha but I don't recall that. Do you have any links? Not saying you didn't but if you're going to be so vehement that it is a fact I think we need more to substantiate it.

He asked for a deal the club didn't think he was worth.
I have since admitted (going by Dannys post)that if the 25k offer was true it was a little low BUT i still maintain the club offered what they thought he was worth and i can live with that.
It's interesting that you only compare Donalds 1st season why don't you use the whole time he's been here when he's had the chance to play in "better Leeds teams" like Calderwood did in 04/05 i think it's accepted by many that 06 was a "transitional" season for the Rhinos also not taking into account that Donald had travelled half way round the world to completely new comp,club and country.
I know you don't really rate Donald and would of liked to of seen him ditched in the off season but if your gonna compare him with your favourite in Calderwood then do it whilst the factors are similar in terms of the quality of team they are performing in.

You accused him of trying to conduct his contract negotiations with Leeds through the media (and if the transcript I provided is the one you were recalling - as you have accepted it was) then that was published after the negotiations had concluded. The message appears to me to be an explanation from Calderwood to the Leeds fans, describing his pride while playing for his hometown club and assuring them that he will continue to give 110% as long as he was at Headingley, regardless of where his future in 2006 and beyond would be.

To which your reply was?

You know full well what my reply was.
It amounts to the same thing imo he asked for something the club didn't think he was worth he left and we got another try machine who has played a key role in us becoming back to back to back champions even though you'd rather see him ditched because you think we have a "moral" obligation to a system that cannot and never was enforced.
He's gone and has never hit the "Leeds form" since his departure which shows that he was part of a very good team who have moved onto bigger and better things without him.

And do you stand by it?

Heard a rumour he might have a option to join his brother.

What as, His cleaner?

Hmmmm Might be time to ditch the spade Rhinoms. That hole must be half way to China!



I was sorry to see Calderwood go, but was looking forward to seeing what his replacement could do.....just a shame I had to wait so long. Any objective RL supporter could see that Donald was totally off the pace in his first season here, and indeed for around half of the next one as well.

Possibly the longest period of jet lag known to medical science?

No spade just opinion he thought he was worth more than he got offered and left and history shows that we've done fine without him.


That first season Donald was here the team as a whole were not as good as the last 2 Calderwood played in,like i said a transitional period.
When Donald has played in a team of equal quality as the one Calderwood left behind he's done just as good if not better than Calderwood.

Maybe harsh given the figures supplied by D but it amounts to the same thing.
He thought he should of had more,the club thought different he left we moved on and achieved an unprecedented 3 in a row with Donald providing pace and finishing whilst picking up a couple of dream team selections.
Whereas other than the odd game or 2 against us Calderwood hardly set the world alight in a Wigan team than won feck all.

yes

I'd have no problem if Burgess went to the NRL. As with Mathers and Tansey. If he did go he'd need to work on ball security and general mobility to become a regular.

from the odd rumour I heard at the souths game souths back up pack aren't that hot. Garrett crossman got a game on Monday night!

With the dollar strong they could pick burgess on the cheap and see how he gets on, it would also give Sam a friendly face.

Why would he need to do that?

You do realize it is a complete falacy this ball security issue of Burgess? people have seen him drop a couple of balls and suddenly thats his game.

You get people going way overboard on here about Bailey who is at best an average prop. Nowhere near as bad as oppossition fans make out, but nowhere near as good as some on here make out. An average prop that is needed in the team, bringing qualities that other's don't.

Burgess, who does not get the same recognition, has made a 100 more metres than Bailey despite playing 2 games less, he's also made 10 more carries than Bailey despite playing 2 games less. He's made 5 more offloads than Bailey despite playing 2 games less. He's made 4 more tackle busts than Bailey despite playing 2 games less. He's made 8 more marker tackles than Bailey despite playing 2 games less, and despite some saying he can't tackle at marker. He's made 1 more clean break than Bailey, and yes you guessed it played 2 games less. He's missed 4 less tackles than Bailey, missing 1 tackle per game with Bailey just above that. He's made only 4 errors this season where Bailey is 6. He's also conceeded less penalties, although I do think there is an agenda against Bailey there.

People can talk about unseen stats all they like, but clubs put a lot of emphasis on stats, employeeing people specifically for it. Burgess's stats match up within the top 5 props in Superleague. He would not have to improve anything to play in the NRL, he is 100 times better than the likes of Ryan Tandy.