Probably shouldn't have brought it up at all then should you?

and in the world cup semi where he was outstanding

he was the best england player on the pitch that day IMO (not that thats saying much!)

I would agree with your conclusion in regards to McGuire but I think the table looks more like this

As Above: (I presume) Leeds SL Regular Rounds Only

Player------------------Try------Total App-----Try/App
1 - Paddy Handley---------2-----------2-------------1
2 - Dean Bell---------------1------------1------------1
3 - Danny McGuire--------125---------151----------0.8278
4 - Marcus Bai--------------39----------52-----------0.75
5 - Brent Webb------------34----------47------------0.7234
6 - Tonie Carroll-----------30----------42------------0.7143
7 - Mark Calderwood------84----------118----------0.7119
8 - Scott Donald-----------53----------79------------0.6709
9 - Kallum Watkins--------2------------3-------------0.6667
10 - Kevin Iro---------------9-----------16------------0.5625

If you widen it out to include All Competitive Leeds Fixtures in the SL Era:

Player------------------Try------Total App-----Try/App
1 - Paddy Handley---------2-----------2-------------1
2 - Dean Bell---------------1------------1------------1
3 - Danny McGuire--------150---------187----------0.8021
4 - Mark Calderwood------106----------143----------0.7413
5 - Brent Webb------------40----------55------------0.7273
6 - Marcus Bai--------------45----------63-----------0.7143
7 - Scott Donald-----------69----------97------------0.7113
8 - Danny Williams--------12-----------18------------0.6667
9 - Tonie Carroll-----------31----------50------------0.6200
10 - Kallum Watkins--------3------------5-------------0.6000

Interesting. This figures I used came from the Gillette Year Book. I'll check them tonight to ensure i didn't enter the wrong figure into excel.


Either way, I didn't expect McGuire to be above all of our wingers.

The first principal of record keeping is to disagree with everyone else's records.

I don't use books or programmes to double check any of my stats but if called on I can list every game that McGuire has played and list every point that he has scored (for Leeds) and the same would apply to any other Leeds player during the SL Era.



I did but there again it's an exercise I do most seasons and bar the anomalies McGuire is consistently out in front.

Thats fair enough! Unfortunately I don't have my own records hence the use of the yearbooks.



It's good to hear, however, that even in your stats McGuire is out in front.



I suppose the advantage of the yearbook figure is that its easier to compare McGuire to Pryce.

Player------------------Try------Total App-----Try/App
Danny McGuire--------135---------166----------0.813253012

vs

Leon Pryce-------------Try------Total App-----Try/App
At St. Helens-----------40-----------80----------0.5
At Bradford-------------86----------188---------0.4574
Total--------------------126---------268---------0.470149

Just going back to McGuire's game totals, could it be that the yearbook includes all SL fixtures (including play-offs), but not cup games?

At Bradford he played a lot of wing, full back and centre. I thought one of the reasons him leaving was to play SO?

It isn't always the sign of a great standoff to have an outstanding try scoring record.
Off the top of my head I bet Wally Lewis, Brad Fittler and Lawrie Daley (3 of the best in the last 30 years when the Aussies have ruled the roost) don't have outstanding tries scored per game statistics.
Not that I'm equating Pryce with those guys, far from it, but a great no6 has to have more to his game than simply scoring tries.
Don't get me wrong I rate mcGuire and always have done & there isn't another No6 in the superleague I'd rather have in our squad but it depends on the entire team and its overall strentghs & weaknesses that count in the end.
Good to argue the point though.

Thats why I included the scores seperately.

Even if you compared Pryce in his St. Helens Stand-Off role, McGuires rate of scoring is still a lot higher!

I hadn't realised that Pryce had played 100 games more than McGuire, I guess that means that Pryce is 3 years more experienced or so, something that should be borne in mind when comparing the two.

Thats a fair point.

...but is that a point in his favour, or a point in McGuires?

We have a winner. Well done your Lordship.

It works for McGuire at least. (I'll check a few more in a minute.)

No WCC, No Premiership and No Challenge Cup then. Leeds have played 57 such competitive 1st grade fixtures over the SL Era but there's the answer.

EDIT: McGuire, Bai, Calderwood, Donald and Webb all check out as SL Reg Rds + SL Play Offs.

Praise from the master, I'm well chuffed

Well, when anybody says Pryce is better or more complete then so he should be given three years more development. That there is so little to choose between them now could be used as an argument that McGuire is a much better player.

Based on the Gillette Totals of SL Reg Rds and SL Play Offs

McGuire: Tries - Appearances (inc. Subs)

2001 - 0 ..... 2 ..... 0
2002 - 5 ..... 9 ..... 0.5556
2003 - 15 ..... 29 ..... 0.5172
2004 - 38 ..... 28 ..... 1.3571
2005 - 18 ..... 22 ..... 0.8182
2006 - 25 ..... 22 ..... 1.1364
2007 - 17 ..... 30 ..... 0.5667
2008 - 17 ..... 24 ..... 0.7083

Total ..... 135 ..... 166 ..... 0.8133

2009 - 0 ..... 1 ..... 0 (That'll bring the average down) ..... 0.8084

Can't remember him playing in 2002 nevermind 2001, what position did he play in his first games?

i could be miles out, but did he play a couple of games on the wing to start with?

no idea why that thought has come into my head.....perhaps im confusing him with someone else *shrug*

Off the bench for Ben Walker. Usually anyway. He scored his 1st try away at Widnes (I think in the game Ben Walker missed a kick infront of the posts) and also scored 2 more at home to Cas the day that GB got hammered by the Aussies down under.

I seem to remember him being named on the wing for the grand final eliminator in 2003, at home V Wigan, but that's not really at the start of his career.

He played once or twice on the wing in 2003. One at home to Wigan, where Dunemann made a break, and kicked to the corner for McGuire to win the race and scoop the ball up brilliantly (Infront of the North Stand, at what now is the Carnegie Stand End. Sinfield missed the kick and the game was drawn.
Blatant crossing on Dunners' break as well, as my SL tries DVD informs me.

Of those 11 appearances over 2001 - 2002 all bar one were from the bench. The exception was his full debut away at Widnes playing stand off (Matt23 mentioned above) where Leeds' Internationals (Senior, Sheridan and Sinfield) were started on the bench.

You may be spot on LP but for some reason i thought it was mathers on the wing mcguire at fullback!
The reason being i specifically remember mathers taking a bomb on the full out wide and flicking a wonder pass back before he hit the deck to adamson i think!

I was there



Wish i'd have been in Leeds after the game though