And your assumption is Leeds won't improve or were playing at the best of their ability on those nights.

Golding; Briscoe Newman Handley Hall; Lilley; Myler; Oledzki Dwyer Cuthbertson; Keinhorst Ferres; Walters. A Sutcliffe Smith Ormondroyd Trout/Whiteley/Holroyd.

I'm not saying anything is going to change - I am not the one saying if Leeds get a full strength side out they can beat anyone because I don't believe that to be true. At full strength Leeds should make the 4 - on their day Saints beat anyone.

Whiteley hasnt been playing for 19s due to injury but Corey Johnson is a far better prospect than him. In fact he is better than Brad Dwyer in my opinion.

I am unsure why the same point needs to be reminded to you all the time, but what you have put above is irrelevent. Unless you are seriously trying ot make out that the oppossition were are full strength there?

You said we have consistently lost these fixtures, I'm showing you that this isn't the case.

Thought he was back from injury now, if they brought Corey Johnson in I’d be very happy as he is a quality player.

No I didn’t, I said in the same scenario, when the opposition is at full strength.

Miles better.

And at least 10 of those are nailed on starters with a fully fit squad. That said, we were abysmal from minute one on saturday and didn't look interested to me and for that there is no excuse. Whatever side takes the field in the coming weeks needs to show fight and desire. I dont expect too much from here but lets hope we don't see the towel thrown in on a regular basis like 2016.

And again I agree with you. But putting in players like Walters and Kienhorst whom have no future here does not help anyone. Take a positive from these times by working on the players you know have a future and see how they develop. That would be the correct route to take.

That's not how your post reads if you read back.

Anyway let's agree to disagree.

100 percent agree with that and i hope it is the way Mac goes now, perfect opportunity.

You are wasting your time. The usual suspects will blame the the coach every time we lose even if he had to play all the U/19s due to injuries which we may soon have to.

Of course all teams have their injuries from time to time but it is quite wrong of some to suggest that in a match say each team has 4 players out then it evens things up. The injuries can have have a much bigger impact on one side to the other. It all depends on which 4 players/positions are out and the quality of their replacements and how many have been long term injuries.

In a full contact sport like Rugby League the loss of several of your big and experience forwards for a long period, especially the front row, can have a devastating effect on how the other players perform.

Galloway retired injured very early into the season and unfortunately Leeds did not replace him at all which was a big mistake. If that had been our only prop missing then Galloway's departure should have been absorbed. But the injuries to our other front line props makes Galloway's loss all the more significant and therefore cannot just be discounted away as not relevant to our poor results and the criticism of the coach that always follows.

So from the squad that started the season and who would have made the 17 on a regular basis we have had our two biggest men Garbutt & Galloway miss all 14 SL matches so far and next in line Cuthbertson has missed half of the 14 games, then Peteru has missed 11 and Mullally 4. As if this were not bad enough Ferres has been out injured also for 7 matches, Ward 6, Delaney 3 and Singleton 2

The ongoing loss of these big men has worn out our willing back rowers who now are showing the signs of fatigue and burn out, not as some say due to age, but due to week in week having to play above their weight.

Without the big men we lack go forward, we give away more metres, we have our tackles busted much more and get our smaller men fatigued more often. All this means we give away momentum to the opposition and our better players that are still fit are always on the back foot.

But the injuries do not stop there. Sutcliffe has missed 10 matches, Walker 8, and Moon 3 and Myler is showing the effects of having to make a lot of tackles.

Now we have lost Watkins for 8 months with an ACL, JJB is out for 6 to 8 weeks with a knee op, and Peteru is out for 10 - 12 weeks and Moon is injured again and there are doubts about Myler.

the issue is other teams have remained competitive despite large injury lists. that's because they have structure and are organised.
but being fair McDermott has never coached structure and shape. even when we had the best team we looked ragged at times. its simply not the way he coaches.
but I don't agree age is not an issue. it is sorry

But we have remained competitive, thats the point that seems to be getting overlooked, bar the usual Castleford drubbing we have been in a chance of winning all the games against our top 4 rivals and actually beaten 3 of them.

yes I agree.we blew 2 of the games. but as the season goes longer the old set of forwards get more fatigued. injuries can't be helped. it happens. but for me the squad is not as good as recent years. we needed a couple of quality of second rowers. for me, if all teams are at full strength we are looking at a 5/6 place finish.
let's embrace the injuries, use it as an opportunity to blood talented kids. we get a few hidings so what?

I actually agree with most of that, apart from your 5/6 prediction, i think we have the squad if fit to finish at least 3rd, but thats not goingvto happen with the current injury list, were not going to get enough troops back before the middle 8 split.

I’m happy that we have probably done enough to avoid the middle 8 scrap and I think we should now look to the future a bit and try some youngsters, Im perfectly happy not to win anything this year, just don’t want another 2016.

yes. we won't go down so get the kids in.most fans aren't daft. we know we'll lose a few,get a few hidings, but like 2001/2 the kids will gain so much from the game time

Agree with the sentiments regards the young lads. Imagine what a dozen plus games could do to to aid development and a lot of them games will be in Super 8s with little pressure but against quality opposition.

We should play our strongest possible team, as McDermott will. Anything else would be pure madness. If you want to watch a team full of kids go and watch the u19’s. This is a must win game.

Id have no problem whatsoever seeing a number of the u19's playing.
In fact id prefer it to seeing our OAPS struggling after 10 minutes or lads clearly injured kept on the pitch.
I'll also say 2/3 would be more ready had they'd be given opportunities earlier.
P.s. I see JC is still bleating about Galloway a player that key we improved without him.

The best way to blood youngsters is 1 at a time with seasoned top class players around them. I'm all for giving chances to young talent like Johnson & Holroyd but only if ready. These 2 are 17 and going well at u19 level. Trout and particularly Dupree look more physically ready but let's bear in mind none of this lot have played 5 minutes of championship football never mind SL.

The long term development is more important than trying to throw a load of these in together if not ready.
Rightly, I don't think McD will ask boys to do a man's job.

It's a massive step up. I think Cameron smith has done well this year but even he struggled physically v Cas.

These young forwards will only be able to play short minutes anyway. II'd prefer to wait and play some later in the year if we are playing dead rubbers as part of a stronger team.

The Galloway excuse just Highlights a lack of knowledge rather than defends a position. The failure to grasp the fact that Oledzki was the replacement chosen by the club for Galloway, they have replaced him. Without the injuries, Oledzki would have been at Fev all year. Can anyone really say that Mullally and Singleton have offered more than Oledzki this year? Never mind Galloway himself.

The only ones bleating are negative one eyed critics like you and Gotcha who post more comments when we lose than when we win. How many times have you had to eat humble pie regarding your opinion of our coach? Does it perhaps equal the number of Championships and Cups he has won?

With regard to Galloway. We were 2nd in the table the day he played his last game for us and we finished in 2nd place. So quite how did we improve without him? Do you think we would have done worse this season had he been fit to play?

But I forgot you don't like facts when they get in the way of your prejudice do you?