Gotcha, you're just arguing for argument's sake! I think, given the quality of our leadership & business management team, it's a perfectly fair assumption that Kirke is not one of the top earners at our club.

If you want to argue otherwise, you're only wasting your own time & breath (or fingers in this instance).

C'mon Gotcha, everyone knows what every player at Leeds is on and even if there are a few that don't it doesn't really matter because everyone knows it's scrupilously fair. The CEO has a scale and everything that calculates annual salary to a tenth of a penny.

That particular antipodean set an unwelcome precedent for reneging on a contract which led to two members of the Magnificent Seven (Donald and Diskin) reneging on theirs

McClennan. Don't forget McClennan.

If they reneged I wonder when the court cases for breach of contract will commence?
GH does not fight shy of litigation.

He's been a 1st team player now for 6 seasons. I very much doubt he's a top earner but I also doubt he's as cheap as chips.

He doesn't offer better value in ££££s than kids we have in our Academy system and 90% of the time he doesn't offer better value on the pitch.

I also hope Mr Gilder is talking in generic terms because 90% of the time Kirke neither powers over defenders or steps them. He never wins a collision in attack (or defence either) which is frankly unacceptable for the heaviest player in the pitch and he rarely wins a quick PTB.

Now, these harsh facts have appeared on a thread praising kirke because performances like Friday's are all too rare. I hope they become more frequent.

This may be semantics, but to my mind if you're not in the 17 when everyone's fit, you're not first choice.

I did use the word "probably" to describe his relative low cost. If he's on top money then yes, he is poor value for it. As for letting youth through, that's a slightly different question. If Ambler and Manning are/were performing comparably (didn't really see much of either so wouldn't know) then I would totally agree that they would be a better bet. If everyone's fit I wouldn't have him in place of Bailey, notwithstanding that even without injuries it's no bad thing to have enough options to give your front rowers the odd break.

I'm not Ian Kirke's number 1 fan or anything, so this is about as much energy as I am likely to expend on the case for the defence, I just think he perhaps offers more than people think. I also think most of what's lacking is application, rather than aptitude, which I entertain some hope Brian Mac will either remedy or get shut. If ther former I think there's a very effective RL player in there somewe in there, who would probably be in the first choice 17.

Yet despite all of the above has managed to be a 1st team player for 6 seasons or so in a team that achieved aguabley more than all it's SL rivals.

Nah then

Although I had me tuppence worth earlier in't thread it's very disappointing to see a large number of folks berating a member of our fine Union.

Thanking you kindly.

Out of interest, is he a fully fledged member of t'union? I only ask because I know he has back row tendencies as well.

I was, and given you're a player blessed with both footwork and power I'd be interested to know your thoughts on the matter G1?

Use them sparingly, that is what I say.

These players that run all over the place, going over defenders, going round defenders, they're showing their hand too readily. I like to hold back a little, display the power and pace sparingly, so that when I do, on that rare occassion, it catchers defenders on the hop. Maybe that is Kirke's game?

Nah then M'Lud

We have received registration papers and a subscription from the player in question

Thanking you kindly

Kirke got alot of sympathy pats-on-the-back against Hull for doing a forwards job. Anyone fancy doing the same this week?

Nope, he was back to his usual. I didn't notice him win a single collision, stopping dead at every impact, defensively and offensively. He never dominated a single ruck and offered nothing.

We must have something better in the juniors and we certainly had something better guesting for Harlequins.

I bet Luke Dorn wishes he could play against Kirke every week!!

he was rubbish but at least he had the excuse of a lot of minutes and a tough game last week. Our big aussie prop signing however..............

He worked hard, we know he will do that. Highlighted a point that's for sure.

I also thought Wilkes was, unusually very good. He bashed us up.

As I pointed out the previous week he is no metre gainer - which is ok to some here because he makes a few tackles. We have two props in him & Kylie who aren't capable of either breaking the line or offloading. At least Cross can tackle unlike Kylie

Yeah but at least he's no Karl Pryce - now he really does punch well below his weight.

Saw him play live or the first time on Friday, he is bloody huge.

He is ,but he went down like a blow up Doll a complete pudding.

I don't Kirke is huge at all.
He's only 6'5"

He's massive.

But he can't move. A bit like Andre The Giant.