I like that quote

The game was edging away long before Clarkson appeared. I'd have introduced him much sooner. We could have done with the fresh legs.

Second guessing how Mac thinks - good luck.

Noooo, he's Kirke and is therefore rubbish, no matter what he does in games.

Unlike say Clarkson, or JJB who can turn in equally mediocre performances without fear of ever having fans get on their backs about it.

And seriously, why is Burrow getting picked over McShane? How about because one can defend and offers you moments that will win you tight, important games through sheer individual brilliance and the other is Paul McShane?

It's nothing to do with coaches playing "favourites" and everything to do with picking your best available 17 to win you the next game.

As far as coaches go in the modern era, I put Mac 3rd behind Smith and Murray at the top (I would have loved to have seen what Murray could have done with our 2004-2008 teams.

He's a massive improvement on McClennan anyway. At least we get a game plan now and the players look like they have been coached. Does it always go right? No! But we are more structured now than we ever have been, even under Smith and the last 2 years have shown that he is a very capable coach. Until we look average for more than a game or 2 at a time, I have no complaints with his judgement.

You statement is probably right there. However, in each game this season so far bar one, McShane when coming on has exceeded Burrow's performance.

You're entitled to your opinion on their respective performances.

I will say that I haven't seen McShane produce anything like the half break that created Hall's try at Saints, or Burrow get walked through like McShane did for Bromwich's try in the WCC.

Exactly. You just said what I have been trying to say for an hour, in 1 post

Not dissgreeing, but there is more to a game than 20 seconds.

I have not see McShane bomb possession like Burrow did at Castleford or in the WCC.

McShane would have to first put himself in a position like that to bomb the opportunity

Haven't seen Burrow defending the ruck in order to get walked through.

Personally, I think the quality of RL we played under McClennan was far better than what we have now. By 2010 it was time for a change but the quality on show in the McClennan era I think was way ahead of what we've seen under McDermott so far.

Ag-H.
Has Burrow never missed a tackle a then??
With regards the Melbourne try what about Achurch then Watkins and a scrambling Kirke??
All the above were involved in missing Bromwich for his try.
Also Jjb and Clarkson and 99% of the team have been criticised on individual performances in the past and present.
Also re-Burrow he's clearly been out-played in games this year at 9 by Mcshane including last week so why is he not on the bench or undroppable then?
You all talk as though Mcshane is Andy Hay in the defence but he's no worse than many others in the team and i always have the opinion you should be dropped for either poor form or rotation and neither make sense if Mcshane misses this match.
Not only that he offers back up if we lose a BR and Sinfield has to revert to 13 with Mags at 6 and RB at 7.
So what about picking yer best 17 on form instead of reputation?
Sometimes you lot would think some are suggesting selling the team and starting agian!!
What has kirke done thus far that's been so good to make him undroppable??
I agree Clarkson should be dropped no problem with it at all and i have mentioned Jjb's form or lack of it in the past is it such a bad thing to mention it and suggest something different?

McShane makes glaring misses on a weekly basis and has done since he first came into the team. Achurch was as much at blame for the try too. I disagree with Watkins getting pulled into it though. Not many full backs would have stopped an already rampaging guy his size. If he goes low, Bromich scores. If he goes high, 9/10 Bromich scores.

McShane has made 102 tackles this season and missed 2. Burrow has made 35 and also missed 2. I know they defend different areas of the field but McShane's defense has improve 10 fold since he first came into the team.

Completely agree CS.

Really?

I noted his defence being questionable a few years ago, but he's worked hard on that part of the game. Especially over last 2 years.

This reminds me of when Burgess was absolutely storming and really was our best prop at the time he was going. There were still certain posters on here declaring that he couldn't hold the ball and his marker defence was bad, despite the stats proving compeltely the oppossite over the the previous 18 months. Not that stats were needed, as it was clear to see with your own eyes. But once certain posters form an opinion (which was made two years prior), that's it for them.

It'll be interesting to see how we line-up in the back row tonight. Many are calling for Ward to play Loose with JJB back at Second Row but i'm not so sure that's the right call. Tomkins has often gone down the edge on the side JJB would be at at Second Row and it seems like JJB often ends up getting too focused on Tomkins (perhaps his instructions). I'd prefer to see the younger, quicker Ward there and have JJB more in the middle (and hopefully less likely to give away slowing-down- PTB's penalties against forwards).

Some people really don't like anyone posting an opinion that disagrees with their own, do they?

Might want to have a think about why they bother posting it on a message board.

How would you suggest they react?

While I agree his defence has improved but I still don't think it is that brilliant

Not at all i enjoy the debate without the obvious sarcasm that becomes a regular occurance if some dont change their views when certain posters disagree.

He's never going to be as physical in defense as say someone like Buderus but he's solid enough. I'd like to see him get a few more starts, he's a clever player with the ball and offers a bit more guile out of DH than Burrow.

To be honest, I thought Kirke was one of the better players against Cas - seemed to make far more meters than the rest of the forwards.

I think the "we all hate Kirke" club has become a little dated on current form.

Is that the same player who drop the ball twice in the last 5 mins effectively costing the game?