Is it though?

Before full-time professionalism and before sports clubs were run as businesses, I'd agree but today, I'm not so sure.

The reality is that Leeds are in a much better position than other clubs to sustain their success to a certain degree, in the same sence that Manchester United have sustained success in Premier League football or that Leicester Tigers, on a smaller scale, have sustained their position as one of the GP's top three clubs.

Players will come and go, youth development will peak and trough but at the same time, Leeds have the infrastructure to support sustained success IMO. The club isn't built on debt like it was in the early '90s, it has a strong financial standing, wide fanbase and a strong influence in the game. It will take a lot of clubs a lot of time and money to compete with that by which time, we've probably moved on to the next big thing.

Gotta agree on this.

It's not a matter of keeping it in my pocket, it's about maximising the value of the spend, and for me that's not currently the Rhinos. Like all, I have a limited amount of disposable income and I feel like I would be "wasting" my money if I spent it in an area I didn't feel happy with.

With regard to changing clubs, I've seen worse than this in my time as a Leeds fan, so I won't be changing my colours, I just won't be wearing them as regularly.

ffs . What a set of whingers . I am a fan/supporter of the club i choose to follow . That club just happens to be the Leeds Rhinos .
I will go to watch them in what ever the weather throws down on us and at whatever the cost financially . Personal circumstances prevent me attending matches occasionally , but that ain't often , either for home or away games .
I really couldn't care much either way if we have a good or bad game as long as the result is in our favour . Obviously we all have a better day or evening out if the play is entertaining , but surely at the final hooter it is the result that matters .
I don't want to watch 'sexy football' , I want my team to win . I want them to win every game they contest . I ain't going to start slating them if they start losing games though , and will always stay to the death to clap them off the field regardless of the result .
I can't understand why people are still leaving games 5 minutes from the hooter , are we turning into wigan ? OK . We are struggling to win at the present , but we are winning . Leaving 5 mins before the hooter in recent times means you miss the winning scores . There were people outside the supporters club on Saturday night that thought we had lost ! ! ! !

Some people really need to get a grip of reality . No team can win every game , nor can they play 'sexy football' every time . Take the Crusaders' fans as an example . Lose almost every game they have played so far in SL , but they have die-hard fans that would follow them to the moon to see them lose it there was a lunar team in SL .. ( please do not suggest that to SKY

) . They are real fans .

Enjoy the game , enjoy the day out at away days , enjoy a bit of friendly banter with the opposition's fans , enjoy a few beers and an over-priced pie or two ....Most importantly of al.... Enjoy your RL experience .


Rant over for now .

Perversely, you are part of the problem.

Any business who doesn't have to try too hard to attract new customers will not try too hard to attract new customers, by the time they realise that they have to try harder its often too late.

Nail, Head, Wallop...

Finding it hard to agree with you here mate. I also go to a majority of the Rhinos games, home and away. I also try and get a few academy games in through the season plus a dozen or so 'grass roots' games.

I guess I'm what you'd class as a so called 'die-hard' fan but what I don't go to watch Leeds (or any other team) do is win. Wining is just a bonus, it's always nice to take the victory and claim the bragging rights but that’s not why I go to games.

It's all about being entertained.

The now famous 70 – 0 against Saints in 2004 was a tremendous match to be at but if we did that every week to every team I be board less and would probably stop going to the games.

Take the first play-off against Saints the year before last, one of the best games I've seen in recent years and we lost. I would rather watch games like that week in, week out and be bottom of the league than watch a crap one sided performance and an easy two points.

The main reason that attendances are down overall this season is due to the fact that SKY have selected our game more than any other season. If you are a floating supporter who has not invested in a season ticket you are less likely to attend the match knowing it is being televised. If the game is not televised then the standard of perfomance although playing a part in their decision will not be the major deciding point it will be the possibility of seeing their side win. Then you get the weather, itorrential rain during the day will further reduce the possibility of the floating supporter turning up. Add to these factors that we are going through a recession not seen since 1929 to all these regular obstacles then I beleive you have the contributory factors for the down turn in attendances.

Every game I have been to this season has been televised, and I live 80 miles away. I may be the exception though

My comments apply to floating supporters. Travelling 80 miles to a game televised by SKY would suggest that you do not come into this category.

The type of supporter I refer to is what used to happen when I was a kid. Being local if Leeds were at home and my Dad had nothing better to do then he would take me to the odd game. It's those type of supporters that GH needs to be attracting to bolster the attendance figures. All the elements I listed in the original post are obstacles that have to be overcome to get them in the ground.

You are correct.

There is no market to the "floating voter" (of which I am one) because the club, along with the rest of the SL clubs, have painted themselves into a corner with their pricing policies, which are generally uniformly set prior to each season (yes I've no doubt that they are not "rigged" but they do all tend to increase by the same amount )

The problem starts with the concession to season ticket holders, if you're only going to discount season tickets by two or two and a half games per season then you limit your options to market individual games to zero.

the season ticket prices are driven by the number of people who will blindly purchase them before xmas each year, if enough are sold then there is no need to discount them further, if you don't discount them further then you cannot offer discounts on matchday tickets to attract the "floating voter", a club caught up in that conundrum can go into a tailspin of falling attendances and have no escape route without alienating a big section of its support.

Only Wigan have broken ranks in recent years and shown some initiative, what its season ticket holders thought of its recent £10 admission prices is not known...

I think it would be an idea to possibly start looking at match grading ala LUFC.
I also think the away end should be capped at 16/17 quid if we can't improve it.
The match grading could be rated by the opponents previous success i.e
Grade A (£20)Saints,Wigan,HKR,Giants etc i.e the play off contenders in the top 6.
Grade B (£1icon_cool.gifCas,Wakey,Quinns and Wire.
Grade C (£17) The rest.
I'd also like to see a family package introduced say a family of 2 adults and 2 kids for £45 for the north and carnegie seats and £38 for the terraces.

Perhaps on a one off game day but Huddersfield have shown some initiative with regards their season tickets this year.

I wonder if the Wigan experiment was deemed a financial success in the end or is it too early to tell?

The problem you have with the line Huddersfield have taken is if it doesn't increase take-up sufficiently to cover the lost revenue on each ticket.

Factoring in additional match day spend such as food and drink from bodies you get through the turnstiles will cover the deficit to an extent, but if you sell 10,000 tickets at £100 and cut the prices to £75 you'll need to sell an extra 3,000 or so to make up the shortfall.

Would there be a demand for tickets that isn't already being met if prices were lowered, and would that demand be enough to meet costs?

As a non-season ticket holder I can identify with McLaren Field's point. There have been games this season I would have fancied taking in as a "one-off", however the pricing structure doesn't encourage that. It's almost as if the club are attempting to charge you extra for having the disloyalty to not buy a season ticket.

Andy, is the walk up price £20? How much would they have to lower it to attract the likes of you and McLaren? How many times would you be persuaded to walk up if they did?

If they dropped the walk up price to attract the likes of you and Mclaren to the odd game how much would they have to drop season tickets prices and what revenue would be lost from that?

Of course the club are charging higher rates to walk up fans. That's the incentive to buy a season ticket!

They also had the free game V Catalans last year, when they announced the season ticket deal.

Then there's the availability of cheap tickets to students through their sponsorhip by the University. I know I got into a couple of games over there for £5 last year with my cousin. Oh, and there was also the opening game of last year against us, when they gave away free tickets to students.

I know most of those are from last season, but I would imagine they've done something similar this year. Of course, the reason they do it is they're still building a fanbase and have a stadium with plenty of spare capacity.

Compare that to Leeds, who appear to have got their average up to pretty much the maximum they can expect, certainly before this seasons dip. I think this can be explained using a variety of reasons, one of which has been the weather. Our last 2 home games have been played on awful days and I think that has stopped some people attending. Certainly away fans, faced with the prospect of standing on an open terrace, will have thought twice, what with the lure of Sky TV as well.

...Indeed. Another point to consider.

If the club drop their walk up prices to attract Mr Gilder and Mr Field to the odd game will the lure of watching any televised games on Sky at home/in the pub or bad weather prevent their attendance anyway?

I have considered this and I am with Mr Hetherington. Screw you Gilderdale. If you want to come, pay the price but I am not jeopardizing the income I generate from my 10,000 season ticket holders and the 17,000 on average who do attend just to charge a price that might suit you to attend the odd game at some point dependant upon TV coverage and rain.

I understand the mechanics of it Gareth, but why not offer say mini-tickets that cover 4 games with a tenner off (so say for £70)? I'd probably be tempted to take one of those, it's not like the sold out signs are up every week so you wouldn't have a H&S issue.

The attitude appears to be at the minute you either buy a season ticket (at a not exactly generous discount) or the club can do without you.

You probably typed that before my 2nd post on the issue above.

The mini season ticket is a good idea so I withdraw my "screw you" comments

I saw it, I treated it with the contempt it deserved.

Was the number of season tickets sold ever announced? I know in good years, we get an announcement in Feb of "12k season tickets have been sold ....", and in poorer years we get more like "Sales of season tickets are ahead of projections.."

Unfortunately thats the attitude of a static company and unfortunately it doens't take very long for a static company to be a declining company, especially in times of recession, indeed if I could only be @rsed to find that RLFans statto page I'm sure we'd see the Leeds average is down on last year already, you can argue the "like for like" angle but 13k for Warrington is number thats going backwards.

Marketing and selling to customers is all about innovation but sometimes just plain thinking, supermarkets do it superbly well - at what point do you think Ken Morrison sat down and wrote "Memo to Marketing Dept - we have enough customers now, screw the rest who won't come in" ?


LATE EDIT - Have found the RLFans statto page - average attendance for this season is now below 13k, personally I'd be worried if I were supposed to be marketing this club.

I thought it was his most eloquent reply for a long, long time on here and agreed with every word.





Season ticket sales are always announced as being ahead of the same point last season even, when the actual attendances turn out to be in decline.

That's just the way it is.



Mis-reading (misleading) statistics are a waste of time.

Leeds' average home SL Regular Round attendance this season is 15,284

Saturday did represent a worrying season low though.

Surely though the dreadful weather of Saturday (plus it was on the box) put a lot of people off coupled with it not being on a Friday..

Yeah, I know



I was in the middle of doing a "Late, Late Edit" of that post when something more important sprung up, real work.

I assume that the RLFans numbers include away attendances although how the hell that works I don't know but the home attendances for this season have hit some new recent lows though, I'd still be worried if I was supposed to be marketing the club because as I said before, they're painted into a corner regarding any ticket discounting options.