It helps in a physical contest if all the participants are fully able to make an appropriate contribution - if not one side is at a distinct disadvantage from the off.

Regardless of wether you think it affected the result it was still an act of sheer selfishness that showed very little regard/respect for any of his team mates. I bet he would not have stuck his hand up if it had been an away game at Wigan!!

Simples

Or a burning desire to put his body on the line to play in a big game with those team mates.

Nobody knew whether the ankle would hold up or not, otherwise the doctors would never have let him play. He was our main strike weapon, and if it had worked and he'd played a blinder we wouldn't be having this conversation. That's the nature of gambles. If we had the benefit of hindsight they wouldn't be gambles.

I once again remind you that he didn't pick the team. The coach will have consulted the player and medical staff and taken a calculated risk.

Hang on a minute, I wasn't looking for blame for losing a game. You asked the question, "Can someone explain how Senior lost us the game". Someone responded to you, and like you, mentioned a missed tackle, or a Bai mistake. In other words placing blame elsewhere.

I simply said, why has the fact that Senior not been able to last the game, and therefore the pressure put on to his team mates a man short, and an extremely hot day, been completely ignored? I wasn't blaming or excusing, just asking. So somewhat ironic would you not agree that the response back is to actually going into blame mode, but use other players instead.

The whole Crusaders episode only goes to show how the RFL havent reali got a clue why do we have to have such mediocraty in charge of our game atleast they didnt have to go threw with the shame of kicking Wakey out on the grounds the welsh outfit meet the criteria and Wakey dont

Shame about Keith though think he might go to Widness

Not sure it has been completely ignored per se rather than suggested that the decision to play Senior would have been a carefully calculated risk after discussion at length with medical staff, coaches etc. The worst Senior can be accused of is a desperate desire to play maybe?

Hahahaha, skit Keith.

Contender for post of the year.

Or as the rest of the rugby playing world calls it, a two year deal at Odslum ...

Yeah, don't knock it until you've tried it ... I have a most excellent England RL Suit Carrier c/o Mr Senior's sales.

And, it is actually a better product than about 90% of the similar suit carriers I have seen out in the market.

I use it on a regular basis and it's been a great purchase.

john kear on radio leeds earlier said they will be talking to keef about going there

Keith Senior will be playing in SL next season without a doubt

I personally can't blame him for wanting to prolong his career, i don't believe that it is a monetary based issue for him, it is a chance for him to set a record as the longest serving SL player who played the most games and over the longest period

I personally think that his Rhinos career came to an end 12 months too late but i fully respect what he has done for our club.

I hope that Keith can find another SL club that needs a player of his pedigree and that he can prolong his career for a couple more seasons yet

Regarding posters dissing him on these forums and on Twitter:
IMO he should be remembered as being not only a legend of the Rhinos but also of the game of RL

As I said at the time, don't worry about seeing Squeef playing in the Boxing Day friendly ... In a Wakey shirt !

You believe it was a burning desire - I believe it was a act of pure selfishness

The coach would have asked he would have said I'm OK knowing full well he wasn't - it was obvious from the warm up he wasn't right, the fact he lasted 20 minutes at the most - he was a passenger for the rest of the half and didn't play at all in the second.

at training the day before he couldn't walk let alone run. he shouldn't have offered to play and the coach shouldn't have picked him

No. Sal said that selfish Keith had made a decision to play, and by so doing had deprived his team mates of a trophy. Giving no other reason other than being less than 100 percent fit but 100 selfish.

In a counter. Other posters have opined that the decision to play Keith was not his, but the coaching staff and medical personnel in tandem.

Blame for the loss has not been aimed at anyone in particular. Bai's brainfart, Kevin's missed tackle, Mckinna's injury and even an opposition players skill have been proposed as contributing factors. But no blame. Bai scored after his mistake and Kevin was MOM but we lost. Which teams do.

Sorry Gotcha. You made an unnecessarily personal negative statement about greedy Keith and it was repudiated. Don't be backpedalling now.

Some people find it impossible to understand that in sport, in general, one team wins and the other loses and often the difference between the two can be one moments inattention, one misjudged tackle, a blink of an eye - unfortunately some can't cope with that and feel a need to blame someone, its a problem in their head that they carry right through life.

Once again you have completely lost me Gotcha, I'm not sure where the Irony is at all?

I don't think Keith lost us that final by playing like some other people do

It certainly didn't enhance our chances - that is for sure

In terms of the final i think all sides Senior ,Tony Smith and the Medics have to carry the blame between them it was a gamble that ultimately back-fired and left us with "what if"?

With hindsight I can completely agree with that but to say that is your overriding memory of Seniors Leeds career is imo very selective.........or just plain trolling

Back to blaming Keith for the 2005 cup loss are we? I will say one more time, it was Calderwood's fault. Of all the moments in the game the only one that you could say would have truly guaranteed a Leeds victory was when he and Mathers conspired to knock on the last minute grubber kick that resulted in the scrum Hull scored from at the death. It was a desperate, awful kick basically giving the game to Leeds and he mucked it up completely. He dives on the ball (or gets out of the way and lets Mathers drop on it) we win.

Of course you could also point out that Hull played their game of the season and other players made errors, but no, let's blame Keith for the whole day. If that's the best you sad trolls can come up with there needs to be no further response. You've got nothing.

Senior playing in the 2005 final was a mistake. Exactly what went on between Senior, Smith and the medics behind the scenes none of us know. If asked to hold someone responsible for that decision I'd suggest Smith as the coach. However, two points should be noted:

1. As others have pointed out, we did not lose that final because of Senior playing or team selections. The Leeds side that took the field that day was good enough to beat Hull and win the cup - we were winning 24-19 with a few minutes to go, even after Bai's gift of a try, and went behind due to Calderwood/Mathers (I'd personally say Calderwood) failing to deal with a grubber that wasn't that threatening.

2. Whatever happened that day or whoever's fault it was, we should not overlook that Senior has been one of our best, most dangerous and most consistent players in the last decade. He's left at the end of his contract after 12 years service including being a key part in our most successful era. He deserves some gratitude and respect for that and deserves better than he's had from Crusaders.

WARNING...SENTIMENT ALERT

I took my then girlfriends kids to Wembley in 1999, one a Man Yoo fan, but I insisted he come so that he had been to Wembley before they pulled it down. The other was a dyed in the wool Rhino. The day started with getting on the train pulled by a loco called "Leeds United" , full of Leeds fans on their way to West Ham. The footy fans mobbed the kids, spoiled them rotten and made them laugh all the way to London.
The journey to Wembley was hilarious, Shaun, the Man Yoo fan was hooked, by the time kick off started, he'd got his shirt signed by Marvin Golden (don't ask), we'd watched Barries lad go haring across the pitch followed by his mum, who sank in her heels. Someone elses child was sent to collect McDermott jr. And had a lot of banter with the London fans at our end.

By the time we got home, the kids were elated, simply elated, tired out, ho, but pumped up with sheer joy. And I had been so glad to have brought them that, even just in a small way.

In 2005 I went with a pal to Cardiff, and as is my wont sat once again with the opposition fans. This time I was sat amongst a large family, grandma, who was in her 70's, daughters, sons, kids, grandkids, and NONE of them had ever seen their team win a Challenge cup.
I shared their journey to the same kind of elation and sheer joy that our Sarah and Shaun had experienced 6 years before. the jokes, the banter, the nerves, the shouting the screaming, the tears when they thought it had gone. The explosion as Brough scored that kick. At the hooter it was real tears and hugs and kisses and just pure innocent happiness.

I don't remember the 2005 final for anything else. You see I remember how I felt in 1994 in the semi. I remember what it was like and yes we lost, and I am sure that there were Leeds kids heartbroken at the other end. But history suggests that they have done ok since. Those kids I sat with, well they'll remember that forever won't they?

I don't regret what happened in 2005 at all. It was still in the top three of matches that I have been to for sheer pleasure.