I agree that this season has been a disappointment so far, but I would trade the other three trophies on offer this year in for the big one at Old Trafford again.

Regarding Leeds' time at the top, with the right level of investment in the right areas (youth, stadium, scouting, fans etc), there is no reason why the club couldn't continue their decent run of recent honours. Where we will let it slip is if we rest on our laurels.

If?

Personally I don't see a slow start to the season as resting on laurels, although if the season takes a turn for the worse then maybe. We need to sort the squad out for next year.

I currently see the season following a similar pattern to 2006, when we had a similarly poor squad retention/management

If players don't want to stay, what can you do?

Ellis wanted to go test himself in the NRL, much as Mathers did.

Other players decided they would be better financially rewarded being bigger fish in smaller ponds than they were at Leeds.

If the right player isn't available at the right price to replace those you lose, do you just throw a shedload of cash at someone inferior just so you have bodies around the place? That might be the Wigan or Bradford way, but look where it has got them.

Its much different to 2006. At least then we had some confidence in the Academy players to come through.

What do we have now? They are losing every week, and not just at reserve level, but academy and foundation. What we have built our current success on seems to be crumbling for going forward.

It's worse than I thought then.

What didn't happen in the off season is my concern (and oft repeated on here.) It's the under spending of the salary cap for 2009, it's the failure to adequately replace four integral squad members from the two championship winning seasons.


It's now the lying about Keith Senior's age and the number of tries Ryan Hall has scored this season.

Exactly. Thats why I can accept a year or so where the level dips. Even SL's best side didn't got to Old traford in 2003, 2004 and 2005, only picking up 1CC and 1 hub cap in that period

Thats irrelevant. What are we talking now 20 continuous years of success?

You said in all sports that teams dont spend long at the top. Here is a perfect contradiction to that.

What has he done to acheive that success? he has built from strength, not from weakness. He has not waited to change things, but been proactive and changed things anyway, to try and enhance.

Many clubs should learn from that blueprint in any sport. Certain posters on here certainly do not follow that philosphy.

What should we change at Leeds? I can understand why you and TVOC are furious that we have won the last two grand finals but what would you change and with who?

Dobson and myler are enjoying decent form in the 1ST part of this season FFS.
Burrow has been there,seen it and done it at the highest level and the other 2 are no way "superior" to him they are just in better current form and i wouldn't swop either for robbie especially dobson who is much more a liabillity defensively.
The bigger test's for these 2 "pretenders" will be proving their form consistently over a number of season's,the potential of myler to be the best is there for all to see it's still a matter of time as to whether he live's up to that billing.
Dobson is a decent 7 in form but no better than burrow imo!

On the contrary I am delighted that Leeds have won the last two grand finals. I will be disappointed if they don't make it three though especially as they have cap money and quota places left unused this season.

I am also deeply disappointed that Leeds have not won a Challenge Cup in 10 seasons and failed to make history this season by being unable to defend their WCC title.

Did we spend up to the full cap in 2004, 2007 and 2008?

Does spending up to the cap equate to success? Perhaps someone from Wigan could answer that.

Seriously, its' hardly worth carrying on. Just end the anguish DISA. You're memory will live on.

Who could/should leeds have brought in to stop Manly in the WCC?

Maybe a world cup winning second row to halt Watmough?

Pass. Did we lose four players from the 1st team squad and replace them with one signing?



Not in itself but having the best squad available while spending up to what the cap allows should help towards success, when married to facilities and a first class coaching set up.

As you're alluding, Leeds would've needed more than a couple of signings to have beaten Manly.

Perhaps you need a whole new team? As has been stated by DISA your halfback isn't any good. Obviously then not being good enough to beat Manly means major surgery is needed on the Rhinos.

[size=42Can you send any cast offs like Burrow and McGuire to the Bulls?[/size

1. No

2. Best squad available, you said it

I don't believe Leeds have the best squad that was available.



A question best directed to the Leeds CEO I would have thought. I could give you a long list of players that would have helped beat Manly but without knowing their availability in the off season that would be pointless.

That said the perceived wisdom suggests that the CEO had targetted Soliola and Pritchard in addition to Buderus.

Had he achieved those additional signings then who knows where Leeds would be sat now. Unfortunately he didn't or any to replace them instead opting to go with what we have, which is weaker than the squads that brought GF success in 2004, 2007 and 2008.



Perhaps, perhaps not.

Another five minutes might have been all that was needed.

He was probably 32 when he agreed the deal, they've just kept the press release till a time that suited them.

I explained Hall's try count with the Florida challenge.

Sack the press officer then. No room for a slipshod approach in the professional age.

I spotted it (even kendall17) spotted it (although he probably spotted me spotting it first and just copied) but the official website/press office didn't spot it. Unacceptable.



Oh and the [url=http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/leeds-rhinos-news/Leeds-Rhinos-Another-year-for.5293762.jpYEP[/urldidn't spot it either.

Peter Smith can forget all about that vacancy at the Daily Telegraph.

I said sport was cyclical - I never said that teams "don't spend long" at the top.

I also said that the football analogy is skewed by the massive gulf in spending power between the top 4 and the rest, which is disproportionately larger than in just about any other sport in the world.

Still, if you want to persist in using it as a yardstick there's nothing I can do to stop you.

More likely to have gone something like this:

Press Officer: "Just doing a press release on Keith, can you confirm he's 33 and Ryan Hall's got 14 tries."

Leeds Rugby Statto: " no that's wrong take one off"

Press Officer (to himself) " OK that must be 32 and 14 tries then"

Happy to report [url=http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=rleague/09/05/22/RUGBYL_Leeds.htmlnot everyone[/url is this sloppy.

From what I can quickly cobble together are the relative losses/gains of major players at the end of each season

2004: (4 out, 1 in) -> Lost Both finals
Losses:
Adamson
Furner
Cummins
Feather

Gains:
Ellis

2005: (6 out, 3 in) -> Poor season
Loss:
Dunneman
McDermott
Calderwood
Bai
Ward
McDonald

Gains:
Donald
Millard
Peacock
O'Neill (excluded)
McAvoy (excluded)

2006: (out 3, in 4) -> Won Title
Losses:
Poching
Walker
Mathers

Gains:
Toopi
Thackray
Webb
Leuluai

2007: (1 out, 0 in) -> Won Title
Losses:
Thackray

2008: (4 out, 1 in) -> ??
Losses:
Toopi
Scruton
Tansey
Ellis

Gains:
Buderus

For me the recruitment this year most closely resembles that of 2006. However, part of the drop was also due to the large turnover from 2004 squad. For me though the thing about 2006 is that poor as it was, with some wise recruitment for the next year, and a couple of the more junior members of the squad stepping up, we won the title. To me that signifies that it is often worth waiting to get the right player. A fair few of the players signed here, were not a sucess, and lasted little over a year.

cant see mcbanana taking this kind of gamble considering his precarious position at the moment..will have to bring in a big name aussie i would guess