I'm fairly sure that during the BBC coverage of last weeks game against HKR. One of the commentary team, whist commenting on the excellent attendance, said something to the effect that "they say that you need to get attendance of 10000 to break even in SL". If that is any where near true then the good Doctor and quite a few other owners must be very worried.

The number seems very high and there must be a wide spread of break even points due to the differing cost base of the various clubs. Anyone have any better insight?

IIRC the Wakey chairman said if they could achieve around 6500 they'd be breaking even.

Though like you say the break even points must be different for different clubs and also depending on what you're actually doing and the quality of that.
For instance a club like Wakefield might break even at 6500 but that's not putting anything aside for investment in stadium or facilities and probably not putting anything like the same into community development. Also is their coaching/conditioning etc of a lower standard and therefore cheaper?

So the break even is dependent on what the club actually undertakes to do. Leeds could lower their break even point by doing less with the Foundation. But that doesn't mean they should.

I reckon 8k for any super league club just to tread water and be effective on and off the field should be a minimum standard. But really 10k should be the aim of every super league club or aspiring super league club.

Problem Salford have is a lack of other revenue streams because they don't own the stadium or any of the catering concessions.

Hence their break even is going to be higher than many other clubs who can benefit from that revenue.

Why can't people just face up to the truth. Salford have spent a lot of money on mainly average players. It doesn't matter what your wage, if youre average, you're average.

Koucash talks a good game but whoever has been advising him on recruitment is not doing his job.

How many top 4 clubs would players like caton-brown, Griffin, Hansen, Lee etc get into these days? Even Bish knew he had to drop down to get gametime.

Koucash talks the talk but doesn't know how to walk the walk if he can't have the salary cap raised so he can throw his extra funds around.

Hansen is a bad example he would be in most 17's but i get your point.Interesting to see what develops in next few days.

Koukash imo is just a richer version of Pearson over in Cods-Ville plenty to say ,slag anyone and everyone off who have been running Clubs/RL for years and tell the World what they and their respective Clubs are going to do.
It's a simple fact that mercenaries will fold sooner than Teams who have a high percentage of players who "buy into the Club" and it's ethos/History.
We should know Dougie Laughtons Leeds anyone? Spent big and even though we had the odd player ala Schoey who "got the Club" the majority were big money signings.
Even considering all that many have already pointed out how "unbalanced" that squad is wrt how the quality is spread throughout it.

Agreed. Unwatchable and pretty depressing for neutrals and nothing against Saints in that comment.

Also, cheap shot tactics can be effective and intimidating if you back it up with good defence and some decent attacking play. Maybe the cheap shots are all Harris brought with him from his days at Wigan.

Apparently Koukash has signed up Tim Sheens for a 3 week spell.

Maybe he shouldn't have got rid of Noble so quickly.

Putting a novice coach in charge always seemed a very strange thing to do for a club with money available.

3 weeks all expenses paid holiday for Sheens.i guess the doc will be attempting to woo him during this time to with a view to taking the job at some point.

In fairness at least he's trying. Tim Sheens might have been a better option pre-season though.

I liked the fact he cancelled the Salford end of season party saying there was nothing to celebrate. There wasn't.

John Cooper Clarke's take on Salford https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KgB-sI2H-c

John Cooper Clarke's take on Salford https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KgB-sI2H-c

Well that's got to be his hope really. Sheens getting involved is good, but how much can be achieved in 3 weeks? It's one thing to spot and correct flaws in the set-up but making sure they're implemented and followed correctly takes time and he will be back in Oz whilst they try execute his suggestions. If he can't st least get him to take the job, at least getting him to stay over in this role for several weeks longer has to be a minimum target.

Surely Tim Sheens been hurried in and out undermines whatever it is Harris is up to.

Wise. Very wise. The sooner, the better.

I'd like Salford to do well. More strong teams equals better competition. If Koukhash and his cash help achieve that, great. For me, though, his influence on the game hasn't been particularly positive. Yes, he generates column inches, but a lot of it is circus act stuff and isn't particularly good press. I don't subscribe to the belief that any publicity is good publicity. He's a loose cannon. I applaud people who are willing to champion new ideas, and some new blood is not the worst idea, but that doesn't mean that any new idea is a good idea. And most of his are pretty batloonytunes.

He's backed up his talk with cash, fair enough. But a large amount of that money has just been squandered. Is spuffing a huge wedge of cash recklessly by over-paying for players and trying to spend your way around the need to build a sustainable club and business really what the game is crying out for?

They've got some good players, so if they all manage to perform at the same time they'll get some good results. But I don't see a club or a team there, so I think they'll be false dawns. 6th is hugely ambitious at this point. Top 8 would be an achievement.

The thing to remember with Salford is that they are where Warrington were 10 years ago, and to a certain extent where leeds were 5+ years before that.

A sugar daddy coming in and signing big name players, gets a bit of interest. You will have to pay over the odds for a few players, to persuade them to come to your small club. After that, better players can be attracted, because you can show you are serious by saying we have these others who we have. Whilst this all goes on the club has a bit of time to get its juniors in order.

Now I'm not saying this is how its being done at Salford, but I think its clear that it takes time to build a top side. The likes of Chase will want significantly more to play for Salford than they would to play for Wigan or Leeds, because there is almost zero chance to win silverware. However, the next group of players brought in will come at less cost because they can see something is being built.

Whether Koukash has the patience is another matter. I'm glad the SL has a salary cap. Somone coming in with a big wad of cash to buy a title is why I finnaly stopped bothering following football. I'm please the game has measures in place

Agree with all that, especially re the salary cap. Though I'd say Salford are even further behind than Leeds or Warrington were. They've basically had to build a club from nothing when Koukash took over whereas, despite massive problems, both Leeds and Warrington had better bases to build from. I think it'll take Salford 10 years to become a truly competitive club and that's 10 years of consistent investment from Koukash and 10 years of consistently good decisions.

I still think, despite the amount of money he's lost, that Salford aren't putting enough into "the club" and aren't marketing and advertising enough or engaging with the community.

Really good series of points actually. Though the final paragraph - if there was no salary cap, might it not attact more money-bags people in, thus increasing the quality overall (further down the line)?

Ok, no salary cap plus one oligarch alone will potentially lead to that club / owner 'buying the title' but if the same happened at even one or two other clubs, doesn't it then create a competition (at least amongst those teams) and one of higher quality? I would assume the like of Wigan, Wolves, Saints, Leeds and Hudds (Hull too probably) would be most attractive to people wanting to buy the title as they have more existing facilities to do so. If that happened, you'd actually be looking at the teams at the top that are already by and large at the top (plus Salford) so what would the difference be?

If they took over the like of HKR or Wakey then with their huge vats of cash, at least initially wouldn't more teams then be on an equal footing? The strong teams would still be strong-ish (I can't imagine the new owners could buy ALL the good players from those teams, nor would all the good players want to go) so it'd end up either the same as currently (but with more money floating about) or with more of the 12 SL teams of a similar competitiveness.

In the more mid-long term it maybe would bring more issues for the 'big' teams that hadn't been taken over either, but then they would still have the stadiums, coaches and prestige they do now and thus able to compete to some degree..?

They'd pay money for NRL Stars and it would make the International Game weaker than it already is.

But surely having the 'NRL stars' would mean a greater depth of quality, therefore benefitting the youth in the sense that rather seeing the likes of Kirke and Bailey in training, they have the like of the Burgess', Thurston and Slater to help them improve. Then if they got in / close to the first teams, you knew they were good, rather than 'not living up to potential, but on the fringes of the team as there is nothing else' as the tone of some posts suggests is the case now.

Something that may have gone unnoticed on your side of the pennines is that Salford have recruited a lot better at junior/academy levels since Koukash has taken over. They have been very active around the amateur clubs that would normally be in the Wigan/Saints /Wire eyeline. Dmya Hanley probably being their first "name" junior.

And it's that group of players that is more likely to bag a trophy IMO. The notion that players motivated more by money than the desire to win silverware are likely to win owt has a pretty obvious flaw.

i like salford i do. i want them to succeed. but conversely i really want MK to fail and the one thing that always bugs me about these conversations is that everyone goes on about this publicity he generates. a quick look down the sporting headlines shows that he does nothing. we dont make national news (unless your name is flowers, but thats put to bed now) so how does this idiot spouting fantasies help the game? the only poeple who hear his clamour for change are those in RL already who know he is talking crap. and english NRL team? wouldnt be english marwan. raise the SC? good idea, lets bankrupt 50% of the league. the guys an idiot who only cares for his own image.
i wish salford well but i fear for them when this man finally loses patience.
rant over (i really dont like the guy)