We should see some. Quick ptbs and some accuracy from dh will only help further, hopefully that's on the cards too.

We've got a truly world class back again now.....
Unbelievable business, considering Warriors paying a chunk of his salary too....!

Good point. We gave lots lack of quality half back options now. We have one of best squads again....

or 3 rejects

Let's hope that Dwyer doesn't get much game time then! Love the guys attitude but he can't pass which is a major issue for a hooker! If you dummy half has to stand up before they pass the ball and then its a big looping pass the balls never going to reach the wing even if you had Sterling and Lewis in the halves. Watch Roby one short step and fast accurate no nonsense pass. In real terms it equates to about 5 yards of space between the defensive line and the offence. We keep talking about props but they are only as good as the ball they run onto. Hooker is the most important position in the modern game.

Good signing, but now you need a pack of forwards that can play for 80mins to match Saints????????????????

Walmsley Lussick Lees
Mata’utia Sironen
Knowles

LMS Roby Paasi
Hurrell Batchelor
Bell

Amor Smith Norman
Forster Wingfield
Baxter

That’s a lot of forwards

If you don't fancy Roby as a starter happy to take him on a free

Oledski Leeming prior
Bentley Martin
Smith

Holroyd Dwyer Tetevano
Mellor gannon
Donaldson

Thompson Johnson Mustapha
Walters edwards
O’Connor

Saints have more depth at prop, I would say we have more depth in the back row. If Hurrell is in the top 4 options for Saints in back row then with a couple of injuries they might have a couple of issues. Couldn’t defend at centre so no chance he can defend there, don’t care how fit he gets.

Other than Bentley that was your best forwards LAST year that could not match Saints intensity and speed so what's going to change?

Your original point was about the number of forwards. I simply responded in relation to depth.

In terms of your second point, I would respond with the following:

1. Tetevano is in his second year and played a small number of games last year, he is a marquee forward so keeping him fit and on the field makes a difference.
2. Oledzki will be a year better as will Holroyd.
2. Injuries! Saints had limited injuries last year, if they did then that had reasonable cover. Leeds if they can keep their squad relatively injury free would naturally be closer. Take out Walmsley and Knowles like we did Tetevano and oledzki and Saints drop significantly.
3. Saints let go thompson and Bentley and brought in Sironen who had some of his own injury issues. So depth wise Saints have 3 decent back row options (excluding the 13 position) which is sironen, mata’utia and batchelor, that’s one player lighter than last year, I wouldn’t class Bell as anything other than a 13 myself. Leeds have Bentley, Martin, Mellor, gannon and Walters. As I said originally more depth for Leeds to cover those injuries but Saints have more cover in the front row and probably at 13 as well.
4. Roby is a year older, Leeming is a year better and won’t be playing in the halves. lussick is a good player but hasn’t played much and is coming into a new system.
5. LMS is 36 in Jan, Amor 35 in May. Injuries and age will creep up on them, especially if they have to play more to cover any injuries.

Do Saints have a quality pack, yes.
Is it better than Leeds, yes.
Will Leeds be closer to Saints in the pack this year, yes.
If Saints get injuries will they be as dominant in the pack, no.

Leeds aren’t where they need to be yet, they will be closer next year and the year after if they get the recruitment right they will hopefully be there.

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Hopefully they might actually play against you. Injuries consistently prevented Leeds getting their best pack on the field. Playing with actual half backs will make a difference too. In fairness I look at Saints squad and see the best collection of players in the northern hemisphere. You should win it again next year, but sport isn't always like that. As they say, pride comes before a fall (Leeds should know) and chances are that next year the chasing pack will edge a bit closer and Saints might have to face a bit of adversity with long term injuries etc. Maybe you won't have as much to crow about.

This theory only works if the rate of progress at Saints is slower than the rate of progress of the rest. If they progress at the same rate Saints move even further ahead.

Great insight.

Stop comparing us with Saints. They are head and shoulders above us. We are now capable of competing with every other team in the league

Were building nicely, weve as good a group of young players as there is in the British game and we will get there. Top 3 should be our aim next year which would be progression.

To keep comparing us to Saints isnt fair on the team.

Nothing wrong with comparing with Saints imo, they're the standard, excellent team that we need to try to compete with.

They were head and shoulders above us last season, dosnt mean they will be next. Looking at our team from that playoff loss to what it will look like next season...Theres a huge difference in quality.

Fusitua in at wing, L Briscoe out...Huge upgrade

L Suttcliffe in at centre, T Briscoe out...Upgrade

Sezer + Austin/Gale in at halfbacks...Leeming + Lui out...Huge upgrade

Bentley in at 2nd row, Donaldson out...Big upgrade

Leeming in at 9, Dwyer out...Big upgrade

Knock on effect is players who started that game are now bench and squad options, strengthening those areas aswel.

I thought we played like we lacked belief we could win that playoff game, hopefully the influx in quality will adress that across the squad.

Saints are the team to beat and have also improved and signed well for next season, they will rightly start as favorites, but, on paper we'v closed the gap imo. With a bit of luck in our favour and a bit of bad luck in theres, it could be enough, who knows.

Seen on the club website we were advertising the Strength+conditioning role, we need to get that hire right aswel.

Last bit's right. Even if we only stop that big f***er Walmsley trampling all over us it'll be a start. We must give him the easiest run out of any of the SL sides

As per another thread I posted on on the Leeds recently, Saints 1-13 “injury rate” last year was 68% - Leeds was 61%. Last year we had long term injuries to Lomax, Fages, Bentley and Knowles with Fages and Bentley missing the vast majority of the season, including the business end. Dodd and Batchelor stood up.

What makes you think the pack is closing in? (Genuine question) to me, our recruitment has been excellent. I consider Naiqama and Hopoate a like for like swap, Lussick is a really exciting addition as we can stop managing Robys time and let him play his full game for 20 minutes like the old days for one last hurrah and Batchelor has already effectively replaced Bentley. Sironen will be hard pressed to be more underwhelming than Thompson, and Bell gives us cover for Knowles which we struggled with this year. Coote will be a loss but the SL young player of the year, and Saints player of the year is hardly a bad replacement, and I’m really excited to see Welsby play a permanent role next year as hell only improve for it. Hurrell is a wildcard but if it doesn’t pay off we don’t lose anything and if it does it gives us another dimension again. Whose recruitment do you rate higher?

We aren't near saints.
Still need a big prop that can make meters and bust a tackle.

We are looking better than last year or two tho.

Saints have three players that must be heading towArds their last season. Will be interesting to see if they do better at replacements than we did.

Calm down, calm down! You're a very sensitive bunch of fans for a team who has just won the competition three times on the bounce. Wouldn't want to be in Woolfe's shoes if you lose two in a row. Nothing wrong with your recruitment, it's top draw. I also said you have the best bunch of players in the northern hemisphere. I'd call that a compliment. I don't doubt your injury spreadsheet algorithms are top draw, but only a fool would attempt to draw a parallel between the injury impact the two clubs experienced last season. My point is, success isn't always as simple as having the best squad of players. Luck, good or bad plays it's part, and Leeds are due a bit. The gap should close a bit next year, odds would suggest not enough to topple Saints, but you never know. I remember thinking Leeds were nailed on for a 4th title in 2010, but Peacock and McGuire got injured when it mattered most. That's the beauty of sport.

Funny how it’s easier to recruit into a side that’s already dominant isn’t it? Players want to win trophies and are more likely to go where they can do that.

Several sides look better for 2022.

Saints won’t be top for ever, it’s a question of when not if.

Oledzki, Gannon and Holroyd are three reasons Saints should be nervous. Maybe not in 2022 but in a couple of year's time, alongside Bentley, we will have the best young pack in the league.

I’m not not calm? I apologise if I came across as sensitive (though I do admit I’m bored of the narrative Saints have been “lucky” over the last 3 years - though that comes mostly from over the hill in Wigan

)

Yeah, there definitely were people calling for Woolf to go 5 games in, with 2 losses in that - but that’s a different story.

There’s absolutely a difference between the impact of an injury, and the volume of injuries a team gets. Volumes of injuries is, in part down to luck sure (though obviously strength and conditioning is a factor as well) but I don’t think Saints or Leeds are outside normal parameters of that luck and that’s what the numbers show, the difference being players like Dodd and Batchelor being able to step into the roles needed due to those injuries, minimising Saints impact.

Yes, absolutely anything can happen - and have also experienced a coulda shoulda woulda if not for injuries 2005 was nailed on until Wigan took out half our teams with spiteful play a week before the playoffs…) but we have a deeper squad this year, and a really clear plan with reserves and juniors for cover, and see our own rate of improvement as a squad as equal to or better than anyone else’s.

Fair enough. For what it's worth I think this Saints team stands favourable comparison with any that came before it. Would love to see you have a crack at Penrith. Is that on the cards or kiboshed because of Covid?

Saints have always been at the top never missed a playoff????????????????? Been in more finals than anyone and won more hubcaps?

Being in play-offs makes you top six or at times 8.