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| Quote ="shadwellrhino"Didn’t most of the other breaches involve clubs challenging for honours? If so, another sign of our ineptitude. I’ve always respected GH for what he’s achieved at HQ and at Sheffield and still do, but he’s presided over this mess for too long now.'"
Well no, quite the opposite in some cases like Wigan (don't know which one), Wakey, Hull, Saints, Halifax and Salford.
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| Saracens fined £5m and 35 points deduction! Now I know its a different sport and the offence might have been more serious, but that’s some punishment!
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| Quote ="shadwellrhino"Saracens fined £5m and 35 points deduction! Now I know its a different sport and the offence might have been more serious, but that’s some punishment!'"
It’s a strong punishment but rightly for a far far bigger offence
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| I dont think our clubs could afford that .
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| Quote ="lionarmour87"I dont think our clubs could afford that .'"
Probably more than most clubs are worth!
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| 35 points! Yowser…
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| Quote ="simonw"35 points! Yowser…'"
But in the RU Premiership I think a team can get 5 league points for a win so in context it isn't as bad as it seems - still pretty hefty though
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| Quote ="lionarmour87"I dont think our clubs could afford that .'"
I don't think they could afford it collectively
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| A small points deduction for Wigan and Leeds would make sense as a deterrent to future breaches of this nature...
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| Saracens has been the worst kept secret in Rugby Union for years. They have used lawyers to pick apart the salary cap rules to pay players indirectly way more money than allowed by the cap - they actually admit this. They have taken a massive dump on the principle of the cap hoping they could take advantage of any perceived loopholes.
The fine is actually structured - it's 3 for 1 (3 quid for every 1 over the cap) and covers a 3 year period. The points deduction is not as drastic as it seems and I think it's designed to ensure they are not relegated. In neither of the last two seasons would they have been relegated if 35 points were deducted. The timing is also suspicious as there is a rumour that the premiership is going to be "ringfenced" and relegation/promotion severely limited. The fear of Leicester going down last year (and maybe this year) put the $h1ts up some people.
The bigger question is the impact on the Saracens brand (Allianz are f******g furious) and on the game in general. Few, if any, of the big clubs are financially viable without significant input from "benefactors". Sarries lose 2-3 million a year. Yet you have players on 1 million plus contracts. It's ridiculous, there isn't the money in the game to sustain club salaries of that magnitude and squad sizes of 30 plus.
There is also some rumblings about players looking to challenge the salary cap on a legal basis. Is it restriction of trade? If that happens and some well healed players and backers go after the legality of a salary cap and win the implications for all sports employing one are obvious. There could be massive fallout for RL if that happens.
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| Quote ="DHM"Saracens has been the worst kept secret in Rugby Union for years. They have used lawyers to pick apart the salary cap rules to pay players indirectly way more money than allowed by the cap - they actually admit this. They have taken a massive dump on the principle of the cap hoping they could take advantage of any perceived loopholes.
The fine is actually structured - it's 3 for 1 (3 quid for every 1 over the cap) and covers a 3 year period. The points deduction is not as drastic as it seems and I think it's designed to ensure they are not relegated. In neither of the last two seasons would they have been relegated if 35 points were deducted. The timing is also suspicious as there is a rumour that the premiership is going to be "ringfenced" and relegation/promotion severely limited. The fear of Leicester going down last year (and maybe this year) put the $h1ts up some people.
The bigger question is the impact on the Saracens brand (Allianz are f******g furious) and on the game in general. Few, if any, of the big clubs are financially viable without significant input from "benefactors". Sarries lose 2-3 million a year. Yet you have players on 1 million plus contracts. It's ridiculous, there isn't the money in the game to sustain club salaries of that magnitude and squad sizes of 30 plus.
There is also some rumblings about players looking to challenge the salary cap on a legal basis. Is it restriction of trade? If that happens and some well healed players and backers go after the legality of a salary cap and win the implications for all sports employing one are obvious. There could be massive fallout for RL if that happens.'"
The restriction of trade argument is a long shot, and not one I buy.
You do wonder whether the cap is workable though. The amount of money and effort clubs spend to look like they're compliant, and the same with auditing, needs to be weighed against the benefit.
Thing is that clubs who think they can achieve competitive advantage will try like hell to bend and break the rules set, and it becomes a silly game of cat and mouse.
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| Interesting re the legality of the cap. It would be hard for an individual player to prove it was the cap that stopped them earning more - they could after all sign for someone else for more if they're worth it.
Toronto are really going to test the cap. Whilst buying a title doesn't sit well, if you've got a new club with the possibility of tapping US-scale finance the other clubs would be insane to stop them. Its time SL stopped trying to cut costs to fit falling revenues and actually looked to grow. Some of the gnashing of teeth over having to travel and away fans is such small time thinking its unbelievable.
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| It would be a shame if crowds at RL games dropped too much, but technology allows easy streaming now and an on-line audience is also valid.
I'm not sure where SL in England would keep hold of the US tiger should the game take off there in the medium term. Certainly we could do with some more star quality in the competition though - the US/Canadian market needs to see the top of the game in action in order to grow and inspire domestic players there.
I can't wait to see SBW playing against Leeds.
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| yep lets go watch over the hill Sonny Bill
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| The legal challenge by some greedy player won’t get far, as long as the cap is written into the overall rules then there is no issue. If the players want more then they either go to a club who will pay them more, or they badger their club for more money. I do not agree with any cap in any sport, but understand why there is a cap. The same reasons why their is a cap in Union is the same reason why there is a cap in RL. It’s there to try and protect the clubs from going bust, I.e over spending on greedy players. The saying is you can only spend on what the game is worth, while RL is our sport overall it is still seen as a minority sport. There are not a lot of firms falling over themselves to sponsor SL. Look one of our main sponsors is batchelor peas , that says a great deal.
The problem we have with the cap is that the powers that be are using it as a protection against the smaller clubs going bust. The smaller clubs want the cap because it protects their interest especially when competing against the big clubs. This being the case the game will be slow to develop, the game has stagnated, it’s not growing. It will be interesting to watch Toronto and see what SBW can bring in terms of increase in the size of the crowd. Now we have Toronto asking to scrap the cap. Unbelievable, they get promoted spend £millions on SBW and ask to scrap the cap. They have no youth development they have to spend to bring in players , unless the cap get lifted they can’t afford many SBW. They will struggle if he gets injured. He will be a walking target.
My opinion, yes the cap should increase, it should double, however it should still be capped at an overall % of turnover based on total income, at least the game will develop more quickly, the smaller clubs would still move forward,they like other clubs need to take more responsibility on their own finances and not expect the hand outs from Sky. The game needs to move forward, not hang about in the doldrums
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| Quote ="ploinerrhino"yep lets go watch over the hill Sonny Bill'"
Williams (34) is younger than Kylie Leuluai, Kevin Sinfield and Jamie Peacock were in their last year at Leeds. He'll be a great addition to our game.
I remember some fans having similar concerns about Steve Menzies and he was superb.
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| Quote ="KaeruJim"I can't wait to see SBW playing against Leeds.'"
Yep, enjoyed it last time round too. I'm also looking forward to him dishing some out to cas
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| A lot of lawyers on here regarding a legal challenge to a salary cap. I'm sure plenty of football fans thought Jean-marc Bosman was wasting his time as well.
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| Williams could have been an all time Great but only money orientated
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| All left the club:
Anthony Mullally, Brad Singleton, Joshua Walters, Jack Ormondroyd, Brett Ferres, Kallum Watkins, Matt Parcell, Tuimoala Lolohea, Ashton Golding, Shaun Lunt, Nathaniel Peteru, Jamie Jones-Buchanan, Carl Ablett all gone with 12 months. Added Ryan Hall, Joel Moon, Brett Delaney, Mitch Garbutt, Jimmy Keinhorst, Keith Galloway, Jordan Lilley, Joshua Jordan-Roberts within 24 months.
19 of these players were in the squad in 2018 that broke the salary cap.
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| Quote ="ploinerrhino"yep lets go watch over the hill Sonny Bill'"
Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Williams (34) is younger than Kylie Leuluai, Kevin Sinfield and Jamie Peacock were in their last year at Leeds. He'll be a great addition to our game.
I remember some fans having similar concerns about Steve Menzies and he was superb.'"
How old will an over the hill Sean O'loughlin be in whilst still under contract at Wigan be for 2020?
Will Lockers be a great addition to the Wigan squad for 2020?
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| Quote ="Frosties."
Anthony Mullally, Brad Singleton, Joshua Walters, Jack Ormondroyd, Brett Ferres, Kallum Watkins, Matt Parcell, Tuimoala Lolohea, Ashton Golding, Shaun Lunt, Nathaniel Peteru, Jamie Jones-Buchanan, Carl Ablett, Ryan Hall, Joel Moon, Brett Delaney, Mitch Garbutt, Jimmy Keinhorst, Keith Galloway, Jordan Lilley, Joshua Jordan-Roberts.....
'"
….and a partridge in a pear tree.
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