But we weren't at full strength either so your point is somewhat moot.

And we lost all three, so not as moot as the other argument.

We lost 3 games against top four rivals by a drop goal, it's not as if we we got hammered by weakened teams (apart from Saturday that is)

We lost all three whilst both teams were missing players, and it wasn't by a drop goal against Warrington. So why should we assume we would win them if both teams had all their players back? It's not like it was one match, it was all three. Games that we have consistently lost in the last three years with the same scenario.

This.

We have only lost by narrow margins really, other than Saturday when Cas were crap, but we were a lot crapper.

The standard of Super League at the moment is very very poor.

Considering St Helens who are quite frankly are a one man team - are top, says it all really.

Anyway back to Saturday, it really does look like we will be in the sh@t squad wise, from the Leeds website looks like the following could be missing...

Peteru
JJB
Ablett
Singleton
Parcell
Ward
Delaney
Walker
Watkins
Mullally
Sutcliffe
Garbutt

And possibly Myler.

It was a drop goal against Cas.

Your assumption seems to be the only team that can improve is Leeds - who is to say that the other sides had an off day and still won?

Consistently lost?

take 2017

against Hull

W 24-52
W 10-7
W 38-26
W 18-16
L 43-24 (CC)


Against Wigan

W 26-18
W 32-16
L 34-0 (when we basically played the Academy team)

Against Saints

L 6-4
W 24-22
W 16-14

Against Warrington

L 25-14
W 40-0


The only thing we have consistently done in the recent past is get hammered by Castleford except when it really mattered of course.

And your assumption is Leeds won't improve or were playing at the best of their ability on those nights.

Golding; Briscoe Newman Handley Hall; Lilley; Myler; Oledzki Dwyer Cuthbertson; Keinhorst Ferres; Walters. A Sutcliffe Smith Ormondroyd Trout/Whiteley/Holroyd.

I'm not saying anything is going to change - I am not the one saying if Leeds get a full strength side out they can beat anyone because I don't believe that to be true. At full strength Leeds should make the 4 - on their day Saints beat anyone.

Whiteley hasnt been playing for 19s due to injury but Corey Johnson is a far better prospect than him. In fact he is better than Brad Dwyer in my opinion.

I am unsure why the same point needs to be reminded to you all the time, but what you have put above is irrelevent. Unless you are seriously trying ot make out that the oppossition were are full strength there?

You said we have consistently lost these fixtures, I'm showing you that this isn't the case.

Thought he was back from injury now, if they brought Corey Johnson in I’d be very happy as he is a quality player.

No I didn’t, I said in the same scenario, when the opposition is at full strength.

Miles better.

And at least 10 of those are nailed on starters with a fully fit squad. That said, we were abysmal from minute one on saturday and didn't look interested to me and for that there is no excuse. Whatever side takes the field in the coming weeks needs to show fight and desire. I dont expect too much from here but lets hope we don't see the towel thrown in on a regular basis like 2016.

And again I agree with you. But putting in players like Walters and Kienhorst whom have no future here does not help anyone. Take a positive from these times by working on the players you know have a future and see how they develop. That would be the correct route to take.

That's not how your post reads if you read back.

Anyway let's agree to disagree.

100 percent agree with that and i hope it is the way Mac goes now, perfect opportunity.

You are wasting your time. The usual suspects will blame the the coach every time we lose even if he had to play all the U/19s due to injuries which we may soon have to.

Of course all teams have their injuries from time to time but it is quite wrong of some to suggest that in a match say each team has 4 players out then it evens things up. The injuries can have have a much bigger impact on one side to the other. It all depends on which 4 players/positions are out and the quality of their replacements and how many have been long term injuries.

In a full contact sport like Rugby League the loss of several of your big and experience forwards for a long period, especially the front row, can have a devastating effect on how the other players perform.

Galloway retired injured very early into the season and unfortunately Leeds did not replace him at all which was a big mistake. If that had been our only prop missing then Galloway's departure should have been absorbed. But the injuries to our other front line props makes Galloway's loss all the more significant and therefore cannot just be discounted away as not relevant to our poor results and the criticism of the coach that always follows.

So from the squad that started the season and who would have made the 17 on a regular basis we have had our two biggest men Garbutt & Galloway miss all 14 SL matches so far and next in line Cuthbertson has missed half of the 14 games, then Peteru has missed 11 and Mullally 4. As if this were not bad enough Ferres has been out injured also for 7 matches, Ward 6, Delaney 3 and Singleton 2

The ongoing loss of these big men has worn out our willing back rowers who now are showing the signs of fatigue and burn out, not as some say due to age, but due to week in week having to play above their weight.

Without the big men we lack go forward, we give away more metres, we have our tackles busted much more and get our smaller men fatigued more often. All this means we give away momentum to the opposition and our better players that are still fit are always on the back foot.

But the injuries do not stop there. Sutcliffe has missed 10 matches, Walker 8, and Moon 3 and Myler is showing the effects of having to make a lot of tackles.

Now we have lost Watkins for 8 months with an ACL, JJB is out for 6 to 8 weeks with a knee op, and Peteru is out for 10 - 12 weeks and Moon is injured again and there are doubts about Myler.

the issue is other teams have remained competitive despite large injury lists. that's because they have structure and are organised.
but being fair McDermott has never coached structure and shape. even when we had the best team we looked ragged at times. its simply not the way he coaches.
but I don't agree age is not an issue. it is sorry

But we have remained competitive, thats the point that seems to be getting overlooked, bar the usual Castleford drubbing we have been in a chance of winning all the games against our top 4 rivals and actually beaten 3 of them.