add george and Sam burgess, walmsley and cuthbo to that pack and it would comfortably be the best in the world.

I thought Williams got better as he got into the game and widdop was starting to pull the strings. Hall showed why he is still one of the best wingers and took some pressure of the forwards. It wasnt really a day for the backs generally though

Hardaker did what he needed to do. He'll improve on that performance. The kiwis read some of our plays really well resulting in Hardaker getting manand ball on occasion. To say he flopped is one eyed nonsense from a Tomkins apologist. Hed have got flattened had he played. I still think despite his tackling Farrell is a touch to lightweught for test rygby. Good player though but undersized against the massive kiwis

The more I see of Widdopp the more I think he is Ben Walker reincarnated - looks classy, seems to do everything you'd expect of a great stand off, but then after a while you start to wonder where the breaks are (none), half breaks (almost none) and try-scoring passes (almost none). He is a better defender than Walker though.

I think he's less prone to daft mistakes and probably a lot more professional than Walker. But I agree with the general point. A lot of activity but not much actually ends up happening.

I don't think he flopped but I think he was pretty anonymous but as others have said it wasn't a game where he had many chances to shine due to the style of the battle.

I do however think if Tomkins was fit and performed the same way these boards would go into melt down calling for him to be dropped. That is a mute point however as he isn't fit and Hardaker is our 1 for this series at least and deserves the backing of the England fans.

The only real disappointment for me with his performance was I feel he could have really stood up and made a name for himself on the first try, I think it was, that was his only real "test" and he couldn't prevent the try when he had a reasonable shot at doing so. Being realistic this Kiwi team is miles off the pace missing most of their key players and they should not win a game in this series, I think opportunities will be few and far between for him to be tested in defense so when they come along I think he needs to take them to show up his ability in this respect.

It was his first run out at this level however and I am sure there is more to come, hopefully if we can be a bit more expansive we will see more of him going forward as against this Kiwi squad that is probably where he is going to get more opportunity to show off his talent.

Not sure how you've figured out that given the angles and how close Harris was to the line when he made the break that it's one any full-back could have prevented?

I don't care who is at full-back, Harris should be scoring there 99 times out of a hundred.

I'm amazed this thread has gone this far. Even the Wigan lot called it a day after a few posts

Very passive aggressive post from a massive Tomkins/Wigan fan.

This honestly feels like a knives sharpening post if I have ever seen one.

People have failed to mention that his kick offs add another threat from the start and his organisation of the goal line defence especially in the second half was outstanding.

Tomkins attack is benign at test level. It seems obvious to go with a FB who can catch and tackle.

For his first real international game he was perfectly steady.

Thought he did well just to get near stopping the kiwi's first try. Harris would've gone in untouched by quite a few FB's who'd have given it up.

I thought Widdop was excellent and wondered what the h*ll Williams contributed. He is the best half back prospect in SL but did sweet FA in this match. Out of hid depth, unsurprisingly.

I thought he warmed to the task and by full time had a solid game.

As I've said on another Thread, Danny Mags should be selected for England. If they want to try New Halfback Combinations, then isn't that what the England Knights concept is for?

This series and next years 4 nations should be used to develop the squad for the 2017 world cup. there aren't that many opportunities to play players together at international level.

Leave Danny mags out and concentrate on the players we hope to be playing in 2017.

Genuinely surprised at this. Once he found his feet I thought Williams showed a lot of class. He has that extra seconds with the ball magic about him.

The problem with this is exactly what has been said. Williams nor Smith will be the Halves in 2017. They swap and change depending on who has had a decent club season.

Instead of trying out different Halves year on year, why not have them play the in the England Knights Team and play the Australian Schoolboys and Kiwi Schoolboys and bring them up together like a Club would?

Then you can introduce a Solid pairing in years to come whilst playing the old heads in the meantime.

It depends whether you want to play absolutely the best team to win now, or whether you have an eye on the future to blood people who can give you the best chance of winning the 4N and World Cup.

In my opinion they've got it right on Williams/McGuire - Williams is a talent who should be better for this experience. We'd benefit from McGuire's kicking game right now, but for Williams hopefully this will come.

England are better set-up for strength and depth at the moment than they've been since the early 90s. Just need the coach to make use of it.

FB Hardaker/Tomkins/Lomax
W Hall/Burgess/McGillvary/Briscoe
C Watkins/Reed/Percival/Sarginson
HB Widdop/Williams/Sutcliffe/Gale
P Graham/Hill/GBurgess/TBurgess/Walmsley/Cooper
H Roby/Hodgson/Clark
SR Whitehead/Farrell/Ferres/Ward/Bateman
LF SBurgess/Cuthbertson/O'Loughlin

Don't think that you will see Sarginson playing for England with him going to RU, and O'Loughlin will be to old for the test in 2017.

The Australian schoolboys team are 18 year olds, and have been beaten by the England academy on their last two or three tours over here.

What I'm getting at is, their should be a 2 tier system at International level to develop and bring through young talent without throwing them into Test Series or Tournaments playing with players they've never played with and against some of the best Athletes in the game.

In the last academy touring squad to Australia, Joe Burgess, Ben Currie and George Williams were present.

In the 2013 England Knights team Zak Hardaker, Tom Burgess, Josh Hodson, Brett Ferres and Elliott Whitehead all played.

The problem IMO is that we don't play enough International RL to bring players through, but that's partly due to the apathy of the average (I'm only interested in my club) RL supporter.

More to do with lack of teams. No one is really interested in us playing France or Wales or Samoa. They're only interested in playing New Zealand or the Aussies because the others just aren't good enough to get bothered about.

I've said it before, you can't have a serious and fuller international schedule when you really only have three teams in it at top level.

Which is why those are the kind of games that the England Knights or a similar second tier England side should be playing, while the England elite side are taking on the Aussies and Kiwis. Maybe pitch them as double headers, Knights v Wales as the warm-up, England v New Zealand/Australia as the main course.

Gets the next generation of young players used to the international setup, being away in camp, learning new structures alongside players from other clubs.

I agree, but somehow we have to get speccies through the gates to fund it, and that is a major problem.

On a positive note I've just been told that there are only about 5K tickets left for Saturday, and only around 3K for the game at Wigan. Anything close to two sellouts would be great news.

It's more important & better for the game to sell out the Olympic Stadium.
The problem as ever is cost when the end of the season is the most expensive time for those supporters of the top teams with the expense of cup semis & the final, followed almost immediately by the cost of the play-offs & the Grand Final.